Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests • Hacker News Board

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#281

Post by southerndrift » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 9:42 AM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #30

I think a lot of people who were born in the west don't understand that, when you're very poor, economic circumstances matter more than political freedom. After all, having money (or not) affects what you can or cannot do far more than whoever's in charge. Chinese people today have lived through an economic miracle. If I lived there I doubt I'd criticize their system, especially considering people still can remember…

>Chinese people today have lived through an economic miracle.

I just want to point out that WW2 was fought with horses[1]. It's not like the West has always been fully industrialized. The development may appear as a miracle to the people, but it is not out of ordinary.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_World_War_II

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#282

Post by bubble_talk » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 9:47 AM UTC

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #13

Serious question: I've got a couple of mainland Chinese acquaintances on my social networks, who are real people but also busily spouting Chinese government propaganda. As the article says, I don't expect them to change their views overnight, but I would like to plant some seeds of doubt. Any suggestions for links to suitable content? (Ideally accessible from behind the GFW, although most can VPN outside it.) For exa…

Ask them how they would invest their money if they suddenly became 100x richer, which for most people isn't something they can easily comprehend. If their answers veer towards things like buying property abroad (or similar stuff indicating they don't believe there actually is any rule of law in their own country), then you can ask them why they are not investing in their own country if they truly believe in their views about it.

When asked to put their money where their mouth is, the actions of people speak far, far louder than their words.

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#283

Post by tibbydudeza » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 9:47 AM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #30

I think a lot of people who were born in the west don't understand that, when you're very poor, economic circumstances matter more than political freedom. After all, having money (or not) affects what you can or cannot do far more than whoever's in charge. Chinese people today have lived through an economic miracle. If I lived there I doubt I'd criticize their system, especially considering people still can remember…

I beg to differ here , it does not quite work when you have an opulent upper class and the rest will start to wonder why they are in that situation.

This is what happened in South Africa and in also France as it does not take much to figure out that political freedom is required to make a fundamental change.

I think in China the ruling party elite seemingly were not so much different from the peasants in the beginning and everybody lives improved overall as they adopted Mao's two systems approach.

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#284

Post by jialutu » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 9:49 AM UTC

learn_to_read wrote: post #276

jialutu wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hired thugs? I assume you mean in Yuen Long right? Here is my question, do you know where Yuen Long is? It's quite far out of the city of Hong Kong (I mean the name has far in it). So the story goes that the "protesters" went there to do what exactly, and then got beaten up right? So why were they so far out in the first place? Since it's quite far out of the city center, do you really think someone can quickly pay t…

It is far but some protesters actually live in Yuen Long. There was a large protest in Victoria Park happened earlier in the same day. After the peaceful protest, they went home and found themselves trapped by the white shirted locals.

"Trapped by the white shirted locals", so then not by hired thugs? If locals would somehow trap "peaceful protesters" to beat them up, then man, HK must be a violent place!

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#285

Post by jialutu » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 10:06 AM UTC

factsaresacred wrote: post #273

jialutu wrote: post #256

I have lived in the UK for over 20 years since I was 8, and I have to say I don't understand the Hong Kong riots. For starters, does any of you even know how it all started? The extradition bill? To do what? To extradite a Hong Kong teen that killed his pregnant girlfriend in Taiwan so he can be prosecuted there, at the request of Taiwan! I don't ever see that mentioned anywhere. Let me say, this video absolutely ril…

> The extradition bill? To do what? To extradite a Hong Kong teen that killed his pregnant girlfriend in Taiwan so he can be prosecuted there You're being disingenuous. The extradition bill is ostensibly about that case but here's the reality: the bill would allow Hongkongers to be extradited to mainland China, where the legal system is a joke. The prospect of being arrested in HK and shipped to authoritarian China i…

Neither I nor any of my family have been tried in China (I am guessing you haven't either), so I cannot comment on the legal system, but in reality, the legal system in the UK is not perfect either. There was a really good book released 2018 about how the legal system is broken here, if you are interested, it's a really good read:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Secret-Barrister-Stories-Law-Broken...

Onto the topic of the extradition bill though, it specifically excludes extraditing politial dissidents, so it would not streamline the process. What I hear some people say that China will just make some excuses in other areas, which then I don't see the point, since kidnapping and disappearing people would surely be easier right, and since they can already do that, then why would they need the bill? But you know what the bill does allow HK to do, is to extradite a baby murderer to face charges of the crime he commited.

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#286

Post by standardcitizen » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 10:08 AM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #30

I think a lot of people who were born in the west don't understand that, when you're very poor, economic circumstances matter more than political freedom. After all, having money (or not) affects what you can or cannot do far more than whoever's in charge. Chinese people today have lived through an economic miracle. If I lived there I doubt I'd criticize their system, especially considering people still can remember…

Seems like you’ve never been to Hong Kong or merely stayed in Hong Kong Island or SoHo.... go outside those areas people live in some bad conditions. If fact, many fishing villages use steel sheets for housing.

Take a tour outside the shopping district or the high end business district.

Having lived in both places, it’s clear why their school books repeatly give opinion rather than statements.

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#287

Post by standardcitizen » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 10:11 AM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #30

I think a lot of people who were born in the west don't understand that, when you're very poor, economic circumstances matter more than political freedom. After all, having money (or not) affects what you can or cannot do far more than whoever's in charge. Chinese people today have lived through an economic miracle. If I lived there I doubt I'd criticize their system, especially considering people still can remember…

Also your points seem to be protest don’t do anything...... so just keep allowing someone in powerful to act however they wish...

I’m sure Hilter would have loved That...: also let’s not forget about the color revolution, seem to do a lot as well.

But hey if we all cherry pick, we can see the world our way rather than reality.

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#288

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 10:15 AM UTC

thewileyone wrote: post #279

I could understand Hong Kong protesting to stop extradition of Hong Kong residents by Beijing because it could open too many doors. However, the original extradition request was for a murder suspect to be extradited to Taiwan, which I don't see anything wrong it. Now, they've gotten the extradition rescinded, what else are they protesting for? That's the real question that the protesters are not answering. It's almos…

[deleted]

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#289

Post by throwaway3e2tr » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 10:16 AM UTC

degoodm wrote: post #214

throwaway3e2tr wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think looking at Macau is a good example. They are in the same political and cultural position as Hong Kong: 1 country 2 systems, colonized by a European country, speak Cantonese, etc. but there are no protests in Macau. Why? The economy is doing well and people there are relatively well off.

Macau actually experienced a big recession while Hong Kong has grown steadily, overtaking the US in GDP per capita. [1] [1] https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_#...

Right, but even after the big recession, it’s still significantly higher than Hong Kong, almost double.

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#290

Post by throwaway3e2tr » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 10:19 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #211

seppin wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many years have you spent in jail as a political prisoner?

The same amount as the vast majority of of people in China: 0

Ironically, President Xi was sent to a re-education camp when he was younger.