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Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

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Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#81

Post by atoav »

pinkfoot wrote: post #60
atoav wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty is usually measured relatively to the perceived average of your environment’s wealth because that is how poverty affects your life. You can be 100 times as rich as some poor soul in a third world country and still be so poor in your own society that you are constantly struggling, fighting for survival, skipping meals and inheriting that struggle to your kids who are born into them without much chances of gett…

I invite you to visit us in Africa where a dose of real poverty will dis abuse you of your silly notion that relative poverty is a real thing.

And I invite you to ask yourself why UNICEF uses “my” definition.

I nowhere said that I don’t see that definition without problems or that I wholeheartedly stand behind it. Another definition used by the World Bank is the poverty line, which fails to capture other aspects of poverty (e.g. two parents with full time jobs unable to pay the rent in a rich society).

The definitions of poverty are a huge topic in sociology and economy and if you feel they misrepresent reality, go ahead and make a better one.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#82

Post by csallen »

bzbz wrote: post #57
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why do I hate cooking?

Because your brain is thinking of other tasks or responsibilities, and you feel as if you’re wasting your time, or need to rush to finish. Additionally, if you’re not experienced, you don’t know how long something will take, and the indeterminate estimate is off-putting. Correct?

I recently experienced this with a specific work-related task, where I was shocked to find myself enjoying doing something that I usually hate. When I asked myself what the difference was, the only thing I could come up with was that during this particular run-through, it was the only time that I wasn't rushing through the task while thinking about what came next.

Any additional insight into what's going on here? I'd love to wield this power to help myself love other things that I hate.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#84

Post by stevesimmons »

bondolo wrote: post #56
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why do I hate cooking?

Nobody has to like everything. I like cooking, I hate doing dishes and cleaning. I know people who hate cooking and enjoy dishes. It is good to have a mix of complementary skills and preferences in a household. It's a hell of a thing when, as a cook, you can stand up from a good dinner you made and walk away from the mess knowing that your roommate Barry wants to have a quiet hour of not talking to anyone doing the d…

You make it sound as if washing and ironing is a massive chore.

Let's say you have 5 shirts a week. Step 1: When you do your white wash, throw in the shirts. Hang them up afterwards. Incremental cost: 2 minutes of your time... Step 2: When you do ironing, incremental cost of 5 shirts @ 3 minutes per shirt is 15 minutes... Probably less that your two trips to the dry cleaner. Plus, nil $ cost, no plastic wrapping to throw away, no use of dry cleaning chemicals.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#85

Post by mistersquid »

stevesimmons wrote: post #84
bondolo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has to like everything. I like cooking, I hate doing dishes and cleaning. I know people who hate cooking and enjoy dishes. It is good to have a mix of complementary skills and preferences in a household. It's a hell of a thing when, as a cook, you can stand up from a good dinner you made and walk away from the mess knowing that your roommate Barry wants to have a quiet hour of not talking to anyone doing the d…

You make it sound as if washing and ironing is a massive chore. Let's say you have 5 shirts a week. Step 1: When you do your white wash, throw in the shirts. Hang them up afterwards. Incremental cost: 2 minutes of your time... Step 2: When you do ironing, incremental cost of 5 shirts @ 3 minutes per shirt is 15 minutes... Probably less that your two trips to the dry cleaner. Plus, nil $ cost, no plastic wrapping to t…

> When you do ironing, incremental cost of 5 shirts @ 3 minutes per shirt is 15 minutes.

3 mins? I iron my shirts, five a week, and it takes me 10-15 mins per shirt, depending on the shirt.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#86

Post by aaron695 »

Need to make up you minds, did women 'work' long hours doing house work in the olden days or not?

Did they just laze around like the men did in this fantasy?

The whole idea is garbage, getting water can take half a day for men or women, is that not work?

If you're stuck starving and have malnourished kids, which was common, is that work or leisure?

If you start working hard at 13, does that count towards your hours that mostly only adults have to do in modern society?

Many people live in conditions pretty close to serfdom/pre industrial today, go tell them they work less.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#87

Post by csbartus »

I have a hobby: when I meet Americans I'm starting to tell them how lazy we Europeans tackle working. I mean the work / life balance for us means nothing since we do life first then work.

And I'm telling them another thing: for me it seems in America everybody is working. The president, the millionaire, the middle and lower classes. Nobody does the `healthy meaninglessness`.

Of course all these are friendly provocations. What surprises me is the cognitive dissonance they cause.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#88

Post by omeid2 »

csbartus wrote: post #87

I have a hobby: when I meet Americans I'm starting to tell them how lazy we Europeans tackle working. I mean the work / life balance for us means nothing since we do life first then work. And I'm telling them another thing: for me it seems in America everybody is working. The president, the millionaire, the middle and lower classes. Nobody does the `healthy meaninglessness`. Of course all these are friendly provocati…

On the topic of "healthy meaninglessness" and somewhat related to the discussions around Universal Basic Income, I think Bertrand Russell's "In Praise of Idleness" is a mandatory read.

http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#89

Post by johnchristopher »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #40
ericmcer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The closer your work is to the actual benefit it provides, the more gratifying it is.

Then why do I hate cooking?

There are many definitions of cooking. Do you hate cooking for thanksgiving, when step-parents are coming for supper on sunday or when you slap peanut butter on loaves of bread ?

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#90

Post by andrewfromx »

"One day's work was considered half a day, and if a serf worked an entire day, this was counted as two days-works." I've been saying this for years with programming and tickets! 4 hours a day is a full days work. If you can get a 4 hour ticket done each day you are right on pace. If you can get two 4 hour tickets done in one day, that's double pace!
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