The United States bases way too much of its identity on who is its president.
Because the United States invests way too much power in who is President.
15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete
661–670 of 932 posts
Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete
#662Most of these comments are about the structural issues with the electoral college.
I’m not really concerned about that. What concerns me is this insistence that a popular vote for President in a country of 350M people is a good idea. Does anyone actually believe this? The executive branch these days has essentially become a proxy for what laws one wants passed, and you end up voting accordingly. This might be fine, if the results were restricted to being local - and by the way, the original design of this country accented on exactly that point. But we don’t live in that country anymore, I guess. Now we want more democracy, all the time.
So I find it really hard to believe that introducing more “democracy” in a nation as divided and diverse as this one is a good idea. This, I thought, was supposed to be one of the reasons that people wanted to move here ... the whole Federalism thing. Taxes can be different between states. So can Social policy. The extension of this is of course the Electoral College.
Spare me the criticism of “slippery slope” but getting rid of the Electoral College seems like we’d be on the road to a government “of the majority, by the majority, and for the majority”. That is categorically absurd, at least in my view.
The cynic in me says that the only reason we’re even talking about this is because Trump won in 2016 via the EC. Sure. He did. And Clinton won the “popular vote” because of LA, SF, and NYC.
For those in SF (or whatever proxy): do you want folks in Sioux Falls or Fargo making your economic and social policy? No? I didn’t think so. So why is it okay to institute the reverse?
The point I’m trying to make here is this country, as diverse as it is, is best run as a distributed network. And centralizing the election of the Executive into a singular popular vote will help destroy what’s left of that network.
Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete
#663Democratic candidates have won the popular vote 4/5 times in the most re ent elections, but only won the Presidency 2/5. That’s an issue.
It’s not an issue at all, the system does not regard popular vote by design.
That isn't true. The system was intended to be more democratic, the current winner-take-all norm came long after the constitution was written.
Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete
#664Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, if we're talking of why electoral college was designed to be this way, then we should read the intention of the founders. > As Alexander Hamilton writes in “The Federalist Papers,” the Constitution is designed to ensure “that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.” The point of the Electoral College is to preserve…
In those days I don’t think the electoral college members were bound by law to vote for the president that state-run popular votes determine are the state’s choice. Of course the purpose isn’t being served if the men and women of the college aren’t allowed to act on their own.
To be clear, I am not favoring the originalist interpretation. I don't think the founders of the constitution were god-sent. They were smart people, and we can put our own heads to work to create electoral systems congruent with our values.
PS: I like how you said "men and women" there. If we go by the founders, women wouldn't be part of the electoral college.
Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete
#665Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why aren't we talking about the Cambridge Analytica scandal example? Another issue of the Electoral colleges is that a candidate could target only a few amount of people (70k according to the documentary) for changing the course of the election. Even if this has been fixed by Facebook. Shouldn't it be considered as a major flaw of the election system? Source: "The great Hack" - Netflix doc.
> The Great Hack I found the title to be self-fulfilling. That documentary was awful! It's just a tag along the journey of a smart narcissist to cover her ass.
I didn’t like the lady either, she’s was definitely doing it for the money.
Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete
#666Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because of the EC I would argue that in most states, including California, your vote effectively doesn't matter at all. Unless you are in a purple state you basically don't have a vote, and politicians can ignore your entire State. So while the EC does empower some rural voters, in reality it effectively disenfranchises most of the country.
That's not an argument against the Electoral College per se, but rather an argument against letting states allocate all of their Electoral College votes to the winner of the popular vote. This particular problem could be solved by forcing all states to apportion their Electoral College votes based on the distribution of the popular vote.
That’s exactly what the NPVIC is trying for... they’re not abolishing the electoral college, just making an agreement that 270+ of them will vote for whomever wins the entire nation’s popular vote.
Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete
#667Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not an argument against the Electoral College per se, but rather an argument against letting states allocate all of their Electoral College votes to the winner of the popular vote. This particular problem could be solved by forcing all states to apportion their Electoral College votes based on the distribution of the popular vote.
> This particular problem could be solved by forcing all states to apportion their Electoral College votes based on the distribution of the popular vote. That is not a realistic proposal. Political gridlock will never allow a change like this. Doing it state by state is even worse because it just creates a system where dems try to do it to only red states and the GOP tries to do it to only blue states. It would just…
This is exactly what the article is about, and 16 states with 194 votes have already done it. It will eventually pass 270 because most states (all non-swing states) have a lot to gain from it.
Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete
#668I turned 30 this year,and the Republican candidate has won the popular vote once in my life,and he was an incumbent. There has been a Republican president 14 of the 30 years of my life. Now,the first president of my life ( Bush 1) won the popular vote before I was born, but if we don't count him, no Republican has entered office with the popular vote in my life. Regardless of political beliefs does this seem right to…
If you removed only California from the popular vote then Hillary lost. The share number of people there still cause Hillary to get the popular vote. Is it fair that 1 state has a controlling share over every other state?
And if you remove Texas, Hillary would have won by an even larger margin.
What is your point?
Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete
#669I turned 30 this year,and the Republican candidate has won the popular vote once in my life,and he was an incumbent. There has been a Republican president 14 of the 30 years of my life. Now,the first president of my life ( Bush 1) won the popular vote before I was born, but if we don't count him, no Republican has entered office with the popular vote in my life. Regardless of political beliefs does this seem right to…
GWB won the popular vote in 2004.
The only time a Republican has won the support of most Americans since 1988.
Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete
#6701) the presidency has grown too powerful and imperial with a bureaucracy so massive the Qing emperor would be jealous. 2) 15 States can do what they want, but unless they meet the provisions in Article 5, the college is here to stay. Thank goodness the Framers had the foresight to include the process for amending the Constitution in the document.
The states have the absolute right to assign their electors as they see fit.
The framers intended for them to be locally elected or proportional, like Maine and Nebraska today.