Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009) • Hacker News Board

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#21

Post by chrstphrhrt » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 4:06 AM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #19

I wonder how much more egalitarian forms of government are a factor. If you have a fixed amount of land to farm, there's only so much work you can do. If you give the king or the bishop your excess crops, there's only so much motivation to work.

Whereas with good abstractions and maintainability, software can grow the pie/field significantly. It's not completely irrespective of hours and is totally contextual to how innovative/novel the challenge is. But there's still the potential for a multiplier that doesn't exist in farming, short of biological breakthroughs.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#22

Post by myrion » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 4:09 AM UTC

zik wrote: post #6

zackkatz wrote: post #3

Than we.

Common usage indicates that "than us" is just fine. Remember English grammar doesn't come from a grammar book - grammar books are merely imperfect attempts to describe common English usage.

At this point, to this non-native speaker, "than we" sounds bizarrely antiquated.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#23

Post by aaomidi » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 4:10 AM UTC

I think this article perfectly captures people's reaction to: "Hey your life is shit than your ancestors and we're all to blame".

I am absolutely loving the random shade we're throwing at people that came before us, as if they were some sort of savages.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#24

Post by yesenadam » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 4:12 AM UTC

zik wrote: post #6

zackkatz wrote: post #3

Than we.

Common usage indicates that "than us" is just fine. Remember English grammar doesn't come from a grammar book - grammar books are merely imperfect attempts to describe common English usage.

More than that, "Than We" sounds archaic to me, 19th C at best, i.e. wrong. Who talks like that?

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#25

Post by hnzix » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 4:14 AM UTC

flatline wrote: post #20

mbell wrote: post #13

Meh, I think this lacks perspective. Maybe you 'worked' less in that era in the sense that you provided a smaller portion of your time to a third party for pay. But, you worked more overall. You didn't work for a few hours then order food for dinner; You probably worked a few hours, then spent the next many hours either harvesting and/or creating all the requirements for life. Maybe you spent 2 hours hunting a deer,…

We recently read Wilder’s Little House in the Big Woods to the kids. The parents’ life was non-stop work from sun-up to sundown and beyond, and while there was some downtime in the winter, everyone was basically homebound. It did not seem like a bad life at all, but then I think there is an eternal virtue to hard work that is only tangentially related to sitting at a desk in the modern era.

An isolated homesteader's lifestyle would be vastly different to a medieval village community.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#26

Post by lazyasciiart » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 4:15 AM UTC

flatline wrote: post #20

mbell wrote: post #13

Meh, I think this lacks perspective. Maybe you 'worked' less in that era in the sense that you provided a smaller portion of your time to a third party for pay. But, you worked more overall. You didn't work for a few hours then order food for dinner; You probably worked a few hours, then spent the next many hours either harvesting and/or creating all the requirements for life. Maybe you spent 2 hours hunting a deer,…

We recently read Wilder’s Little House in the Big Woods to the kids. The parents’ life was non-stop work from sun-up to sundown and beyond, and while there was some downtime in the winter, everyone was basically homebound. It did not seem like a bad life at all, but then I think there is an eternal virtue to hard work that is only tangentially related to sitting at a desk in the modern era.

They were literal pioneers. It was considered an incredibly difficult lifestyle by everyone else back then too.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#27

Post by _ptgt » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 4:16 AM UTC

zik wrote: post #6

zackkatz wrote: post #3

Than we.

Common usage indicates that "than us" is just fine. Remember English grammar doesn't come from a grammar book - grammar books are merely imperfect attempts to describe common English usage.

Ohohoho that depends very much on who you're talking to about the English language.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_prescription

EDIT: These downvotes confuse me. It is a matter of fact that there exists an entire non-trivial linguistic school of thought which holds a belief completely incompatible with what GP just presented as more or less indisputable. GP's authoritative tone is unjustified, regardless of which camp you happen to agree with.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#28

Post by jhallenworld » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 4:23 AM UTC

I think a comparison with someone living as a citizen of the Roman empire is much more apt. Check out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_economy

Of course they had slaves, but then so did we..

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#29

Post by milquetoastaf » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 4:27 AM UTC

mbell wrote: post #13

Meh, I think this lacks perspective. Maybe you 'worked' less in that era in the sense that you provided a smaller portion of your time to a third party for pay. But, you worked more overall. You didn't work for a few hours then order food for dinner; You probably worked a few hours, then spent the next many hours either harvesting and/or creating all the requirements for life. Maybe you spent 2 hours hunting a deer,…

Aside from hunting and clothing (which a not-insignificant portion of families still partake in) these are still modern concerns? Homeownership isn't exactly a life of leisure.

It's a a plain fact that there are far more feast days and ecclesiastical holidays than federal holiday. In America, you're lucky to get a guaranteed 10 days off.

Re: Preindustrial workers worked fewer hours than today's (2009)

#30

Post by ericmcer » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 4:29 AM UTC

flatline wrote: post #20

mbell wrote: post #13

Meh, I think this lacks perspective. Maybe you 'worked' less in that era in the sense that you provided a smaller portion of your time to a third party for pay. But, you worked more overall. You didn't work for a few hours then order food for dinner; You probably worked a few hours, then spent the next many hours either harvesting and/or creating all the requirements for life. Maybe you spent 2 hours hunting a deer,…

We recently read Wilder’s Little House in the Big Woods to the kids. The parents’ life was non-stop work from sun-up to sundown and beyond, and while there was some downtime in the winter, everyone was basically homebound. It did not seem like a bad life at all, but then I think there is an eternal virtue to hard work that is only tangentially related to sitting at a desk in the modern era.

The closer your work is to the actual benefit it provides, the more gratifying it is.