Can you imagine a person grow in an environment that all input information is designed to control every single individual's mind, not only what you see and hear, but also how you perceive and think.
Simple put: China is the Matrix for real
Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests
191–200 of 376 posts
Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It makes some feel attacked and reaffirms what they were taught in China: The West is biased and hostile. It's easier when you want to believe something, to believe it. No matter what the source is.
This. Much of the media consumed is shaped more by the biases of their viewers, less the other way around.
Saying that mainland Chinese are "brainwashed" is excusing their very real, and very widespread hostility and bigotry. Extreme nationalism and a deep sense of grievance wasn't invented by the CCP, and they won't hesitate to use it to solidify their power (war, greater authoritarian crackdowns, etc.)
Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the protesters will offer a different slant. From what I've read, they genuinely understand that what is at stake is their freedom to choose their own path. They've watched as China has gradually taken control of the governing body, the media, the financial management and the police. Each transpired more or less over a number of years, but each was also worrisome and that worry and anxiety pent up. The trigge…
> From what I've read, they genuinely understand that what is at stake is their freedom to choose their own path. Unfortunately that's not what's at stake because they won't succeed; freedom isn't actually an option. They think it is, but they'll fail. > Liberty is what they are fighting to keep. Not wealth. That might be what they tell themselves, but I can guarantee that if all the HK youth got cushy finance jobs l…
> if all the HK youth got cushy finance jobs like the previous generation, these protests would have never happened
You are assuming HKers would sell their freedom to a tyrprican government in exchange for GDP growth the way mainland Chinese can. That's a big assumption.
Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
I... don't see the rebuttal. There is no demonstration on inaccuracies in the original reporting, just a bunch of complaining about bias.
Biased reporting that selectively misrepresents Chinese perspectives and in this case, deliberate omissions to dismiss the publication as purveyor of fake news is crux to many Chinese complaints against western MSM. See all the Huawei 5G hit pieces from a nominally free 5th estate that somehow manages to replicate the manufactured consent of state propaganda. IMO people who lived under propaganda, especially journali…
> Biased reporting that selectively misrepresents Chinese perspectives and in this case, deliberate omissions
Was there bias in the reporting? sure. Is there bias against China in the MSM? sure.
That isn't a rebuttal.
> >The editor claimed that during their talks, he explained to Zhang how much effort the publication put into fact-checking and confirming references. But none of these went into the final piece.
This is the same editor who the article quotes as admitting to complete fabricating a story? If there is so much good information about "effort the publication put into fact-checking and confirming references", why did none of those details make it into the rebuttal?
> Instead, it made up some lies
What lies? If there were lies, they should be specifically identified.
Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
> From what I've read, they genuinely understand that what is at stake is their freedom to choose their own path. Unfortunately that's not what's at stake because they won't succeed; freedom isn't actually an option. They think it is, but they'll fail. > Liberty is what they are fighting to keep. Not wealth. That might be what they tell themselves, but I can guarantee that if all the HK youth got cushy finance jobs l…
You know, I wanted to contradict you, then I thought better and didn't want to bicker, but then saw you had gotten 3 downvotes in this short time, which I also don't like -- so I'll just say what for me is the main thing: > For the record, I'm not saying that Hong Kongers are wrong for protesting or wanting freedom. I'm just saying they'll fail, and the consequences won't be pretty. You may be correct, you may not. I…
I think looking at Macau is a good example.
They are in the same political and cultural position as Hong Kong: 1 country 2 systems, colonized by a European country, speak Cantonese, etc. but there are no protests in Macau.
Why? The economy is doing well and people there are relatively well off.
Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
I... don't see the rebuttal. There is no demonstration on inaccuracies in the original reporting, just a bunch of complaining about bias.
Biased reporting that selectively misrepresents Chinese perspectives and in this case, deliberate omissions to dismiss the publication as purveyor of fake news is crux to many Chinese complaints against western MSM. See all the Huawei 5G hit pieces from a nominally free 5th estate that somehow manages to replicate the manufactured consent of state propaganda. IMO people who lived under propaganda, especially journali…
You are their target audience then.
>how much effort the publication put into fact-checking and confirming references.
Looks like you can read Chinese, so tell me if they do what say, why are there so many allegations of fabrication and plagiarism against this "self-media" on Chinese social media?
EDITED.
Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
I saw plenty of examples that westerners who do the same...it's just not reported in western medias.
The OC was being sarcastic. The USA is the most entitled country! USA citizens even call the country America or ‘Merica’ as if they aren’t part of one of two continents called America (if you’re in the USA then the two continents are North and South). Which means every person trying to cross the USA border is AMERICAN!!!
Downvoting anonymously without justification seems cowardly.
Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests
#198I think a lot of people who were born in the west don't understand that, when you're very poor, economic circumstances matter more than political freedom. After all, having money (or not) affects what you can or cannot do far more than whoever's in charge. Chinese people today have lived through an economic miracle. If I lived there I doubt I'd criticize their system, especially considering people still can remember…
>when you're very poor, economic circumstances matter more than political freedom It's more than that. Back in the 70s, Westerners could very easily make the case that the USSR was corrupt, inefficient, hopelessly backwards and fundamentally organised in the interests of the state rather than the people. The evidence was abundant, even to Soviet citizens; any possible defence of the Soviet system was predicated on bl…
> we're talking about a political system that can be legitimately defended.
If you think authoritarianism, (organ harvesting and concentration camps) can be "legitimately defended", sure. You go with that.
The economic growth of the last few decades has no causal relationship with the form of government. If anything the reforms of the 90s/20s were delayed by CCP incompetence. Think where they would be without the corruption and party nonsense.
Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
The OC was being sarcastic. The USA is the most entitled country! USA citizens even call the country America or ‘Merica’ as if they aren’t part of one of two continents called America (if you’re in the USA then the two continents are North and South). Which means every person trying to cross the USA border is AMERICAN!!!
Downvoting anonymously without justification seems cowardly.
I’ve got five the majority are from the USA.
Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a Chinese American, I've noticed that propaganda is everywhere and we all need to be wary of it. Tiananmen is often brought up, but did you know that the US experienced a parallel event? I didn't learn about this in US history class, but apparently soldiers fired upon unarmed student protesters in the Kent State shooting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
Notice how you can link to an US website for a lot of information on it, which in turn is linking to 100+ more. Compare this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings#Memorials... with this https://vimeo.com/44078865 and also compare " Twenty-eight guardsmen fired approximately 67 rounds over a period of 13 seconds " with this, which itself is just a tip of the iceberg: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comm…
Wow I haven't seen those before. The reddit images were really powerful and disturbing. There's no arguing that the Chinese government has committed atrocities and is trying to cover them up.
My point is just that, I feel like the Western dialogue is often "Look at these horrible things that happen in China. Isn't propaganda sad?" My point is that propaganda is happening everywhere. Yes, it's happening in China blatantly and fragrantly. But everyone needs to be wary and alert that it might be happening even in seemingly "safe" countries.
For instance, I enjoyed your vimeo link and it compellingly documented the obvious censorship of the issue. The video made clear that some people clearly know what happened on 6/4 but it's not socially okay to talk about.
Interestingly, there is a small and consistent mistranslation in the subtitles. What the video translates as "don't record it", is "don't record me". Aka, some of the subjects take issue with the videographer recording people without permission. In addition to the sensitive topic, (I imagine) some part of their discomfort on screen is due to being randomly interviewed and recorded. But this was seemingly mistranslated in the videographer's favor? I point this out, not to argue with the message of the video, but to show that there is nuance/spin happening everywhere.
Thank you for taking the time to share these very interesting links. I'm grateful that I live in a place where it's possible to have this open and reasonable dialogue.