15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete • Hacker News Board

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#21

Post by acomjean » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 8:36 PM UTC

not_a_moth wrote: post #15

An argument I heard recently against this is, if abolished, politicians won't have incentives to campaign in rural territories, and they won't be accountable to rural territories. That basically makes sense. The EC is the only thing that really gives rural territories any stake, as the majority population has shifted to larger urban centers. People who want to get away from the big cities and live a different kind of…

Electoral college is for the presidency. But the political power discrepancy between rural and urban areas is quite stark in other branches of government.

For example: Right now in the US there are 2 senators from each state. California with a population of over 39 million has 2 senators, Alaska with a population around 700,000 also has 2 senators.

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#22

Post by jeanperrot » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 8:36 PM UTC

innocentoldguy wrote: post #16

This is stupid. The entire point of the electoral college is to ensure small states have a say and the country isn’t ruled by the majority mob. Small states would have to be pretty ignorant to make themselves irrelevant like that.

Are you thinking of the US Senate? The electoral college is not meant to give a proportionally larger weight to small states.

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#23

Post by tryptophan » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 8:36 PM UTC

not_a_moth wrote: post #15

An argument I heard recently against this is, if abolished, politicians won't have incentives to campaign in rural territories, and they won't be accountable to rural territories. That basically makes sense. The EC is the only thing that really gives rural territories any stake, as the majority population has shifted to larger urban centers. People who want to get away from the big cities and live a different kind of…

We could implement a proportional representation system, which would make sure that their voices are represented in a far way. If people vote 30/60/10 for parties A/B/C, 30/60/10% of candidates elected would be of that party. Now its more like 45/55/0 or some other random result, based on gerrymandering.

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#24

Post by chuckdries » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

not_a_moth wrote: post #15

An argument I heard recently against this is, if abolished, politicians won't have incentives to campaign in rural territories, and they won't be accountable to rural territories. That basically makes sense. The EC is the only thing that really gives rural territories any stake, as the majority population has shifted to larger urban centers. People who want to get away from the big cities and live a different kind of…

Right now it's the opposite

> People who want to get away from the ~big cities~ small towns and live a different kind of life with different priorities (and different legislative interests), shouldn't be totally shut out, should they? Even though I live in a ~giant urban area~ rural area, I wouldn't want to feel pressured to due so due to lack of political stake if I move elsewhere.

who's to say one direction is more important than the other? At least if we ditch the electoral college, individual voices always have the same volume

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#25

Post by currymj » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #4

Up next: Abolishing the World Series. Make it one big, long game and count only the total number of runs.

this is the cricket approach. baseball typically plays multi-game series instead.

i agree in spirit though. i have long thought it would make sense to abolish the playoffs. give the pennants to the teams with the best records. then, have them play a 21-game World Series in the fall.

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#26

Post by m0zg » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 8:38 PM UTC

News flash: Trump would still have won, just with a different campaign strategy and a different platform. Promise a little more of what CA and NY want, and a little less of what everybody else wants, and he'd get the popular vote, too.

In fact I think this would make it _easier_ for a populist to win, not harder, because all they'd have to worry about is crafting a campaign message that resonates with the majority and portrays their opponent as Satan in the flesh.

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#27

Post by outside1234 » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

not_a_moth wrote: post #15

An argument I heard recently against this is, if abolished, politicians won't have incentives to campaign in rural territories, and they won't be accountable to rural territories. That basically makes sense. The EC is the only thing that really gives rural territories any stake, as the majority population has shifted to larger urban centers. People who want to get away from the big cities and live a different kind of…

They still have 1 person 1 vote. There are a lot of people in rural areas and if one politician shows up there more the will get more of their votes.

Its sort of like the analogous effect showing up in Michigan in the auto manufacturing areas had for Trump. He showed up, Hillary did not, and he won more of those votes.

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#28

Post by r00fus » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

not_a_moth wrote: post #15

An argument I heard recently against this is, if abolished, politicians won't have incentives to campaign in rural territories, and they won't be accountable to rural territories. That basically makes sense. The EC is the only thing that really gives rural territories any stake, as the majority population has shifted to larger urban centers. People who want to get away from the big cities and live a different kind of…

> if abolished, politicians won't have incentives to campaign in rural territories

That's one take. Another take is that urban centers are being actively disenfranchised.

Btw, those politicians who benefit from the EC are the ones creating policies that are destroying the rural populace at the same time.

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#29

Post by chrischen » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

not_a_moth wrote: post #15

An argument I heard recently against this is, if abolished, politicians won't have incentives to campaign in rural territories, and they won't be accountable to rural territories. That basically makes sense. The EC is the only thing that really gives rural territories any stake, as the majority population has shifted to larger urban centers. People who want to get away from the big cities and live a different kind of…

Territories aren't people. People are people. By granting more power to "territories" what you're really doing is over-representing people who hold land.

Re: 15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete

#30

Post by dbuxton » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 8:40 PM UTC

innocentoldguy wrote: post #16

This is stupid. The entire point of the electoral college is to ensure small states have a say and the country isn’t ruled by the majority mob. Small states would have to be pretty ignorant to make themselves irrelevant like that.

However, it's not clear there's anything that small states can do about this (other than make sure that this doesn't get passed in states making up a majority of EC votes).

The states that would arguably be stupid to go for this are actually the purple ones rather than the large or small ones, because they are the ones that are currently the focus of presidential campaigning but they would no longer be if there was a mechanism for making the EC reflect popular vote. That's perhaps why Colorado may remove itself (see https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-movement-to-skip-th...)