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Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

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Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#71

Post by JamesBarney »

atomi wrote: post #67
JamesBarney wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking is one of the leading risk factors for cardiovascular disease: agreed It starts earlier than a lot of people thought: agreed The primary contributor to smoking's detrimental effects on the cardiovascular system is nicotine: disagree Mind linking to something that shows this? That doesn't agree with the results from the UK study on effects of nicotine versus smoking which puts nicotine's effects at about 5% of…

You can test this yourself. Test your blood pressure prior to vaping and then after. If you choose to ignore all else you could argue the rise in BP is transient and not concerning. I personally would not bet my life on it.

I don't know if identifying whether or not something transiently raise my blood pressure is a better measure than a comprehensive report by the UK equivalent of the NIH.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#72

Post by ceejayoz »

JamesBarney wrote: post #68
ceejayoz wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that smokers --> vaping is being offset by non-smokers --> vaping. https://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2019/jun/12/t... > The CDC conducts an annual survey of tobacco use by middle and high school students, asking if they’ve used a tobacco product in the last 30 days. The most recent poll, released in February, found middle school use increased from 5.6% in 2017 to 7.2% in 2018; among high s…

This depends on the relative harm of smoking versus vaping. Uk government estimates risks at 95% less than smoking which means we're still winning health wise by quite a bit.

Vaping appears to have stalled progress towards smoking cessation:

https://www.apnews.com/1c899ae55fca41bab3cefcdc37bf6de4

> For decades, the percentage of high school and middle school students who smoked cigarettes had been declining fairly steadily. For the past three years, it has flattened, according to new numbers released Monday.

It may also encourage relapses:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-ecigarettes/vaping...

> Adults who smoke cigarettes may have an easier time cutting back or quitting altogether if they start vaping, but a new French study also suggests that vaping may make ex-smokers more likely to relapse.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#73

Post by slau »

lowdose wrote: post #53
InvaderFizz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main concern with the way things are going is that it looks an awful lot like attacks on vaping are for the purpose of driving smokers back to cigarettes. I know of no one that things vaping is harmless. It is certainly much, much less harmful than cigarettes and is infinitely preferable to cigarettes. I quit smoking, with the help of vaping. I was a pack-a-day Newport smoker that started on a ludicrously high 36m…

I quit smoking in a similar way now 3 years ago. A cigaret is almost engineered to spike a nicotine shot. By only vaping my nicotine cravings decreased over time without effort. I recommend smokers to immediately start with an expensive vapor that works. Beating a nicotine addiction is not possible with a $20 solution that requires duck tape hacks after a week. I took away from Alan Carr's book it is not possible to…

I’m in the same case as you. I switched to vaping 2 years ago (August 14th). Started out at 9mg of nicotine, and now at 1mg. Switch to 0.5mg is planned for early September.

Every time I lower my dosage, I notice I vape 2-3 times more than usual, and after a week, I stabilise again (at around 15-20ml per day). I exclusively vape on an RDA.

Over the weekend, I was invited to go to a shisha bar. After 3-4 tokes, I was high as a kite. Hadn’t experienced such a nicotine high in a very long time.

I can’t wait to finally be off nicotine completely. I’m already noticing that I often forget my vape when leaving the house, and when I notice, I don’t really sweat it. It’s a slow process, but for me, it works.

And yes, I know that it’s possible that I might grow a 3rd arm 20 years from now. But I’m playing the odds: cigarettes will kill me dead for certain. Vaping, maybe not.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#74

Post by cardine »

EpicEng wrote: post #22
ceejayoz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone starts selling nicotine-laced steaks, I'll be the first to advocate for an FDA crackdown on it.

Nicotine is in the same drug class as caffiene. Want to ban coffee as well?

Cocaine is also in the same drug class as both nicotine and caffeine.

Drug class is irrelevant in this situation.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#75

Post by falcolas »

dumbfoundded wrote: post #27

If you believe E-Cigs are harmless, there's an easy experiment you can do for yourself. Go on a run, time yourself. The next day, vape for 30 min and then go on the same run. This is what got me to personally switch away from E-Cigs. Vaping would add an additional 30-sec to 1-min per mile on my runs. I try to only use patches or gum now. Still not great but it's a lot better if you're trying to stay in shape. That be…

> vape for 30 min

That seems like an excessively long time. I don't vape, but I have a few acquaintances who do. None vape for 30 minutes at a time - typically 5-10.

I imagine if you inhaled cold water vapor for a solid 30 minute time frame and ran, you'd see a similarly bad outcome. Doesn't mean it's bad for you.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#76

Post by hombre_fatal »

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #60
hombre_fatal wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A man having casual sex is basically gambling that the condom works and that the woman will abort if it comes to that, something he has zero say in. I don't know how anyone can say sex is very risk-free. As I get older, "don't stick your dick in crazy" makes more and more sense. Pretty much all the STIs in my demographic can be cured with a $20 pill. And almost all of my post-nut clarity revolves around fearing becom…

> Pretty much all the STIs in my demographic can be cured with a $20 pill If only. HSV2 affects 1 out of 6 people, rarely shows its symptoms and can be latent for years, has a big stigma associated with it, and there's no amount of $$$ you can pay to make that go away, unfortunately. Also the occasional antibiotic-resistant variants of the $20 ones, if you get sufficiently unlucky.

Fair enough. I mainly was trying to elevate the fears of unwanted children rather than downplay the risk of STIs.

Though among the people I know close enough to know this about them, nobody has HSV2 and almost none of them know somebody who has it. Meanwhile I know a dozen men stuck with accidental children with women they never wanted anything to do with.

CDC says HSV2 has 12% penetration into the population aged 14-49 but has no further demographic info. HIV is even more common yet I don't know anybody with it because I'm just not in the high risk demographic. So these just aren't part of my perception of day to day worries (perhaps incorrectly, as you would point out) compared to unwanted children.

The person I replied to made it sound like unwanted pregnancy is a solved problem which isn't even true for women, thus categorically less true for their partners.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#77

Post by bushido »

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #62
cr0sh wrote: post #58

So I take it, should these results be replicated and validated as scientifically sound, that smoke machines will be banned? Because it's the same kind of aerosol with virtually the same ingredients. I'm also curious - and maybe I missed it; it's a dense paper - that while they mentioned the primary ingredients in "bare" vape liquids, they didn't seem to mention the concentrations of each used in the study? Again, may…

> smoke machines will be banned Do people put smoke machines up to their mouths and inhale it many times a day over many years?

No. But that might be an unfair comparison.

People vape by choice.

Smoke machines on the other hand have more in common to going to a restaurant or bar back in the day and being subjected to other people's second hand smoke.

You go to a venue for music or something similar, and get exposed to smoke machines.

Never have I ever heard anyone say, we should go to a concert or night club because - smoke machines!

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#78

Post by filoleg »

Duhck wrote: post #45
InvaderFizz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main concern with the way things are going is that it looks an awful lot like attacks on vaping are for the purpose of driving smokers back to cigarettes. I know of no one that things vaping is harmless. It is certainly much, much less harmful than cigarettes and is infinitely preferable to cigarettes. I quit smoking, with the help of vaping. I was a pack-a-day Newport smoker that started on a ludicrously high 36m…

What's the supporting evidence for your concern that "attacks on vaping are for the purpose of driving smokers back to cigarettes" Philip Morris (now known as Altria) put $13bn into Juul to do the exact opposite. The margins on vaping are higher, the current perception of vaping is that it's better than smoking, and it's way easier to get kids addicted to vaping than cigarettes. I see too much evidence to the contrar…

>"attacks on vaping are for the purpose of driving smokers back to cigarettes"

I don't think it is intentionally on purpose, but it sure does seem this way sometimes.

A specific example that comes to mind: city of San Francisco banning sale of e-cigs completely, while keeping regular cigarettes just as legal as before [0].

0. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/06/25/7357140...

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#79

Post by tryitnow »

JamesBarney wrote: post #61
Medicalidiot wrote: post #39

The number one controllable risk factor for stroke and heart attack is smoking. By far. Not diet, not exercise, smoking. A significant part of that is because nicotine will constrict blood vessels leading to hypertension[1], this leads to destruction of the surface of an artery, leading to atherosclerosis formation. One day the atherosclerotic plaque ruptures and then you see me. We once thought that atherosclerosis…

Smoking is one of the leading risk factors for cardiovascular disease: agreed It starts earlier than a lot of people thought: agreed The primary contributor to smoking's detrimental effects on the cardiovascular system is nicotine: disagree Mind linking to something that shows this? That doesn't agree with the results from the UK study on effects of nicotine versus smoking which puts nicotine's effects at about 5% of…

Is that 5% of the risk of cardiovascular disease or 5% of risk from any disease?

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#80

Post by slashink »

program_whiz wrote: post #11

Many people seem to believe that vaping is harmless, this is good to make the point clearly that vaping, while not as harmful as smoking cigarettes, isn't a "cost free" activity. I personally didn't realize that it could have these effects either.

Yeah I take issue with this also. I've tried to get my dad to stop smoking for the past 15 years and I've come to terms that it just won't happen.

So for me it's more about helping him risk manage, getting him on vaping instead of cigarettes is "less shitty" way of getting that fix for him, even if I'm fully aware that it's not healthy in any shape or form.

It's the lesser of two evils for sure, however, nobody should pick up vaping if you aren't currently smoking cigarettes.

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