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Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

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61–70 of 233 posts

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#61

The number one controllable risk factor for stroke and heart attack is smoking. By far. Not diet, not exercise, smoking. A significant part of that is because nicotine will constrict blood vessels leading to hypertension[1], this leads to destruction of the surface of an artery, leading to atherosclerosis formation. One day the atherosclerotic plaque ruptures and then you see me. We once thought that atherosclerosis…

Smoking is one of the leading risk factors for cardiovascular disease: agreed

It starts earlier than a lot of people thought: agreed

The primary contributor to smoking's detrimental effects on the cardiovascular system is nicotine: disagree

Mind linking to something that shows this? That doesn't agree with the results from the UK study on effects of nicotine versus smoking which puts nicotine's effects at about 5% of the risk of smoking.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#62
post #58

So I take it, should these results be replicated and validated as scientifically sound, that smoke machines will be banned? Because it's the same kind of aerosol with virtually the same ingredients. I'm also curious - and maybe I missed it; it's a dense paper - that while they mentioned the primary ingredients in "bare" vape liquids, they didn't seem to mention the concentrations of each used in the study? Again, may…

> smoke machines will be banned

Do people put smoke machines up to their mouths and inhale it many times a day over many years?

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#63

Many people seem to believe that vaping is harmless, this is good to make the point clearly that vaping, while not as harmful as smoking cigarettes, isn't a "cost free" activity. I personally didn't realize that it could have these effects either.

My main concern with the way things are going is that it looks an awful lot like attacks on vaping are for the purpose of driving smokers back to cigarettes. I know of no one that things vaping is harmless. It is certainly much, much less harmful than cigarettes and is infinitely preferable to cigarettes. I quit smoking, with the help of vaping. I was a pack-a-day Newport smoker that started on a ludicrously high 36m…

> I know of no one that things vaping is harmless.

To me this is up there with "I know of no one on HN who actually dislikes Javascript."

You're contradicting a mantra that is so ubiquitous that it's a bit hard to take you seriously.

People I know IRL and on Reddit (without even venturing into circlejerks like r/juul and r/vaping) think vaping is so harmless that health effects aren't even the tiniest part of the discourse while they puff on their vape pretty much every waking hour. Compare that to almost every cigarette smoker who is at least in a state of "yeah, I should quit someday." I'd be hard pressed to find someone who vapes saying that, and when it comes up it's usually just for financial reasons.

Not to say you aren't having the experience that you said you have, but rather to point out that you may be surrounded by a rather unique group.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#64
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main concern with the way things are going is that it looks an awful lot like attacks on vaping are for the purpose of driving smokers back to cigarettes. I know of no one that things vaping is harmless. It is certainly much, much less harmful than cigarettes and is infinitely preferable to cigarettes. I quit smoking, with the help of vaping. I was a pack-a-day Newport smoker that started on a ludicrously high 36m…

What's the supporting evidence for your concern that "attacks on vaping are for the purpose of driving smokers back to cigarettes" Philip Morris (now known as Altria) put $13bn into Juul to do the exact opposite. The margins on vaping are higher, the current perception of vaping is that it's better than smoking, and it's way easier to get kids addicted to vaping than cigarettes. I see too much evidence to the contrar…

It's not hard to say it's better than smoking. Every study done to date comparing the two days it's not nearly as harmful as smoking.

Smoking is one of the most harmful things you can possibly do to your body. Many people underestimate how much of a low bar being better than smoking is.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#65

If you believe E-Cigs are harmless, there's an easy experiment you can do for yourself. Go on a run, time yourself. The next day, vape for 30 min and then go on the same run. This is what got me to personally switch away from E-Cigs. Vaping would add an additional 30-sec to 1-min per mile on my runs. I try to only use patches or gum now. Still not great but it's a lot better if you're trying to stay in shape. That be…

Careful, in addition to constricting/hardening blood vessels that is thought to lead to heart disease nicotine has other long term effects as seen in in this study of angiogenesis:

>In a series of experiments, the researchers found that nicotine could enhance new blood vessel growth in mice whose hind limbs were artificially starved of oxygen. They also found that lung cancer cells implanted into mice grew more quickly when the mice consumed nicotine in their drinking water. Mice susceptible to developing plaque in the arteries of their hearts also experienced more rapid plaque growth when exposed to nicotine than mice who were not exposed.

>The researchers believe nicotine works by binding to a receptor on the surface of endothelial cells that recognizes acetylcholine -- a chemical that nerve cells use to communicate with each other. Endothelial cells line the interior of blood vessels throughout the body. …

https://news.stanford.edu/news/2001/july11/nicotine.html

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#66
I would be curious to compare this to smoking an actual cigarette to see if there is any difference. Inhaling any vapor/smoke that isn't meant for your lungs is going to cause damage and it would be neat to see a comparison between the two.

Anecdotal story time:

My grandfather who is currently 81, has been smoking since he was 12. He grew up in a very small town, and had 6 people in his graduating class other than himself.

Around January of this year, during a visit he seemed inquisitive as to the vaping device I was using. He still at this time was smoking 1.5-2 packs a day of roll-your-own cigarettes.

The reason he still was smoking so much is he has severe health issues from being legally blind from diabetes, and having extreme back pain since he returned from the service. In his hold age the only place he can sit and relax is this very old chair that sits on his porch that for whatever reason the angle on it relieves his back pain. He sits on that porch, smoking I would say 85% of his time, and the habit of playing with cigarettes while sitting there was the biggest factor.

After inquiring about my device and having me explain it to him he wanted to buy one right away and get on the e-cig bandwagon. I was skeptical as he has a whole multitude of health issues and if I were to switch him without consultation and something were to happen the guilt would be very great and I could not live with that.

I went with him to one of his visits to the V.A. and he brought up the subject of e-cigs to his doctor. We all had a conversation that pretty much came to the conclusion that continuing to smoke cigarettes wouldn't be any better than e-cigs, and there is always a chance that the e-cig could be worse but there was nothing definitive.

I was able to get him to transition to smoking 0% nicotine juice, with a higher PV/VG ratio (from what I've gathered online in smoker forums high VG juice tends to inflame those with asthma more than the PG). He did use nicotine patches for two weeks when he came off the cigarettes.

He slipped up and did smoke about 3 cigarettes during this transition, but starting the beginning of February he has been nicotine free and smoking the e-cig.

He recently had a lung test or something where they measure your 02 etc. He had said when he was smoking his 2 packs a day that his 02 was at 65% or so, and that it had gotten up to 78% at his last test.

Now I'm not a doctor and there are probably a billion variables that are unaccounted for, however he said that his breathing is much easier and doesn't have a hard time sleeping when it is hot and humid out as much as before. For him the switch seems to be working with regards to his lungs/breathing.

As far as other issues becoming more exacerbated because of this, only time will tell I guess.

He does want to quite completely, I suggested switching to sugar free candies or something to keep his oral fixation at bay while he sits in his chair. He seemed open to the idea, but like most smokers it really is a mental game and trying to get him to change his ways is pretty tough as he is a stubborn old man.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#67

The number one controllable risk factor for stroke and heart attack is smoking. By far. Not diet, not exercise, smoking. A significant part of that is because nicotine will constrict blood vessels leading to hypertension[1], this leads to destruction of the surface of an artery, leading to atherosclerosis formation. One day the atherosclerotic plaque ruptures and then you see me. We once thought that atherosclerosis…

Smoking is one of the leading risk factors for cardiovascular disease: agreed It starts earlier than a lot of people thought: agreed The primary contributor to smoking's detrimental effects on the cardiovascular system is nicotine: disagree Mind linking to something that shows this? That doesn't agree with the results from the UK study on effects of nicotine versus smoking which puts nicotine's effects at about 5% of…

You can test this yourself. Test your blood pressure prior to vaping and then after. If you choose to ignore all else you could argue the rise in BP is transient and not concerning. I personally would not bet my life on it.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main concern with the way things are going is that it looks an awful lot like attacks on vaping are for the purpose of driving smokers back to cigarettes. I know of no one that things vaping is harmless. It is certainly much, much less harmful than cigarettes and is infinitely preferable to cigarettes. I quit smoking, with the help of vaping. I was a pack-a-day Newport smoker that started on a ludicrously high 36m…

The problem is that smokers --> vaping is being offset by non-smokers --> vaping. https://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2019/jun/12/t... > The CDC conducts an annual survey of tobacco use by middle and high school students, asking if they’ve used a tobacco product in the last 30 days. The most recent poll, released in February, found middle school use increased from 5.6% in 2017 to 7.2% in 2018; among high s…

This depends on the relative harm of smoking versus vaping.

Uk government estimates risks at 95% less than smoking which means we're still winning health wise by quite a bit.

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#69
sorry if this comment is against the spirit of the community (i don't think it is, but I have been blocked from posting in the past oblivious to the fact that I wasn't contributing anything meaningful), but that being said...

am I the only one who isn't surprised that someone managed to find that if you introduce something into the body that isn't generally there, that there is obviously going to be an acute response of some sort? seems sort of like a simple "you introduce a thing to your body, your body responds to it" type thing, though perhaps I misunderstood the nature of the acute systems that were measured? they just didn't seem too horribly negative to me from my reading of it. granted, that being said, im all for further testing and gathering of further evidence, as a vaping enthusiast myself i think it's quite important that science keeps studying it so that we know exactly what it does, especially over long term exposure. and perhaps maybe I'm just being unnecessarily reactive against some imagined people that might take this and say "hey look it's proof that vaping is bad for you because things happen when you do it!"

Re: Acute Effects of Electronic Cigarette Aerosol Inhalation on Vascular Function

#70

The number one controllable risk factor for stroke and heart attack is smoking. By far. Not diet, not exercise, smoking. A significant part of that is because nicotine will constrict blood vessels leading to hypertension[1], this leads to destruction of the surface of an artery, leading to atherosclerosis formation. One day the atherosclerotic plaque ruptures and then you see me. We once thought that atherosclerosis…

I smoked for ~3 years and one of my favorite smoking memories was with a doctor in San Diego.

He was going down the standard visit questionnaire and asked if i smoked, so I said yes. He put down his pen, looked me in the eye, and loudly said "STOP". He looked back at the form, picked up his pen, and we carried on.

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