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The Browser Monopoly

blairreeves.me

161–170 of 197 posts

Re: The Browser Monopoly

#161
post #150

Why Chrome exists is missing a key driver - A significant portion of Google's search traffic came from business deals where they paid browser vendors (or others) to be the default search option. As they cannibalized the browser market they eliminated this cost or gained significant negotiating power. "Driving innovation on the web" is the don't be evil slogan that motivates us all to allow them to "vertically integra…

As they cannibalized the browser market they eliminated this cost or gained significant negotiating power. They still pay Apple a reported $12 billion a year and they have no negotiating power on iOS.

Which is to say - "Why does Android exist?"

Re: The Browser Monopoly

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood this trope. I have not found this to be the case. I think people who weren't around developing for the majority IE days are the ones saying this. It was just so much worse For instance, before Edge adopted Chromium, it didn't have support for the web components/custom elements specification. Safari was one of the first browsers to have it properly (I think even before FireFox) beside Chrome (which…

It's not difficult to understand it, just watch browser scores on can I use https://caniuse.com/ Yes Safari is far better than IE but we're in 2019, it's the new browser limiting the web, thus it's the new IE.

I check caniuse often, and I find that most of the mainstream APIs I want to use Safari supports.

Is there some specific glaring hold back that I'm missing?

Most of the new daily use APIs seem to be well supported, not to mention iOS Users tend to be extremely well update to date (at least in my experience, and it seems to be the case as they report often in their developer conferences). I tend to note that Mac users aren't usually 1 or 2 releases behind, either (and they have been getting better at back porting Safari versions)

Here's what I see:

https://caniuse.com/#compare=safari+10.1,safari+11,safari+11...

and I don't see any glaring omissions of day to day APIs that I think most developers use most often, since not everyone is even on the latest versions of Chrome, per se, or the need for enterprises to mandate support for IE11.

I can see:

Lazy Loading of images and iframes via an attribute

requestIdleCallback API

The `:has` and `:focus-visible` pseudo selectors `text-justify` is a weird omission, I will say that (though its roadmapped to arrive)

They have ResizeObserver in 13 and the Tech preview, and likely this will land with iOS 13 at some point. Desktop Safari and iOS Safari don't tend to be too far behind each other.

CSS Paint API (Then again, only Chromium based browsers have this right now anyway, this is essentially houdini. Also worth noting it can be enabled behind a flag in developer versions of Safari right now, so I wholly expect this to be implemented in the future. FireFox isn't even that far along yet)

I'm sure I could find others, but how many day to day APIs are actually missing? All the big ones (CSS-Grid, Web components, CSS and SVG Animations etc) are alive and well, and the Safari team has most of the missing ones in their pipeline.

I am open to discussing this further, of course! I want to know if I'm missing something or unique, and I realize not every case is the same.

I also acknowledge that No, its not as good as Chrome, and some of these features have to be polyfilled (which is nice that it can be, but not ideal), and yes, I wish they were faster (much faster) at updating webkit and safari across the board. I'm not here to sing the praises of their release schedule and feature updates by any means.

However IE never had a real history of implementing things that most developers even wanted to use most of the time. It was truly that bad. With the exception of Flex Box and Ajax, I can't think of anything that came out of Internet Explorer that became a standard or inspired a standard. Microsoft at many points was actively hostile in participating with much of the WHATWG/W3C process. IE11 even didn't support the ES6 standards nearly at all (They got Map, but not all of Map, but didn't implement Promises etc). That was just plain horrible in my opinion.

I think Safari is falling behind in some aspects, but in terms of covering most of the popular, meaningful APIs? they seem to keep up OK, much better than IE or even Edge ever did.

Its also important to acknowledge that Apple is a devices and software integration company, not a Web Application Company, so Safari follows a product schedule, not a rolling release one, though they have made a lot of motions to decouple the Safari update and release process from this product cycle its been on (slow, for sure)

I think they don't deserve this moniker, because its completely distracting from real criticisms that can be leveraged into action. By declaring it the new IE you're taking power away from better, more substantial, valid criticisms and concerns that I think the webkit/safari team would be more willing to engage, honestly.

Re: The Browser Monopoly

#163
post #3

>Chrome introduced a lot of neat new features (Porn “Incognito Mode,” multithreaded memory changes, tabs and more). Now chrome is getting credit for in private browsing and tabs? (Safari and Opera respectively. Phoenix/Firefox popularized them long before Chrome was a twinkle.) >It is mind-boggling that basic tools like these are not yet standard features in browsers. How long have browsers offered to save passwords?…

I agree with your points over all, but I'm still bitter and will take the time every time to sound my bitterness about the fact that Microsoft didn't back Firefox/servo (the rust implementation of their rendering engine) Why am I bitter? 1. It hands a lot of power over to chromium, regardless of how much it gets forked by Microsoft. 2. It would have put some very talented engineers onto a Chrome competitor, which I a…

I too believe this was a very short-sighted move on Microsoft's part. There might have been some very good short-term reasons for building off of Chromium rather than Firefox or servo, but long-term entrenching the Google monopoly is going to cost them big time.

Re: The Browser Monopoly

#164
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most front-end web devs, iOS Safari is the new IE6.

Truth, mobile Safari is far and away the worst of the "modern" browsers, and it's basically impossible to test unless you have a spare Apple device or you pay for BrowserStack :/

You also need a Mac to (a) remote debug Mobile Safari, and (b) Test Safari on desktop.

You probably need both an iPad and an iPhone because (1) iPadOS 13 now acts like desktop by default, (2) If you do anything with inputmode= or number fields the virtual keyboards are different, (3) screen size

In theory you can test iOS/iPadOS devices in xcode, but I have found real devices far easier and more reliable.

Re: The Browser Monopoly

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the major improvement that made everyone switch was process separation for each tab Which IE8 had around the same time (It may have launched after Chrome, but in the contemporaneous betas, they both had the feature) What made people switch was a combination of everything google did having the sheen of "cool" around it, and the fact that I.E development was slow and shoddy.

My perspective on browser history is a little different. I've been following and using Firefox since before it was Firefox. At one point in time, I was working in a computer store. IE6 - 8 was letting ActiveX controls and other scripts run rampant, infecting people like crazy. 99% of our business was malware cleanup and removal due to IE. Once you explained to people what happened, they were appaled and were happy to…

I seem to remember at the time Chrome was faster than FF.

Re: The Browser Monopoly

#166
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am also wondering why Opera (=Presto) is in that graph. Since the latest Opera is Chromium-based I would expect it to be counted as Chromium.

Importantly, implemented on top of Chromium does not mean feature parity with Chrome.

Neither security parity.

Re: The Browser Monopoly

#167

> Firefox is a fine browser by itself [...] I have the comfort of knowing that my personal information is protected (to the extent possible) – and also that my portal to the web is not custom-built to track me and serve me ads FF is fantastic, but the uncomfortable question is, will it always be, given Mozilla has to found further development and is financed by Google's money as well? Apple's Safari actually has bett…

> Mozilla has to found further development and is financed by Google's money as well? This was also mentioned at the bottom of the article: > If I were a Product executive at Mozilla, I would be banging the table to introduce useful, paid products that could enrich and support the Firefox ecosystem. Chief among these would be a low-cost, independent email service focused on privacy and spam protection that would allo…

No, they just have to offer ads without tracking clicks or impressions.

Something similar to the former service of Project Wonderful.

Re: The Browser Monopoly

#168

Can we talk about Brave? Its impressed me immensely, and BAT is a profound new approach to monetization on the web. in the context of this article its the only salvation i see; much like telegram for messaging, it provides a privacy and performance focus that makes it infinitely better than the bloat of chrome at getting you around the web; And without the ads and tracking. Awesome.

Brave is based on Chromium.

Re: The Browser Monopoly

#169
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I credited it to Safari

But you also said that Opera and Firefox had private browsing before Chrome which is not true.

>for in private browsing and tabs? (Safari and Opera respectively.

Respectively. Meaning private=safari, tabs=opera.

Re: The Browser Monopoly

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome had the nifty break away title bar tabs before anyone else. But the major improvement that made everyone switch was process separation for each tab. One tab could crash while the others stayed functional and a security vulnerability in one tab would have a more difficult time compromising the others. It's also one of the reasons Chome uses so much memory, they failed to keep optimizing their copy-on-write pagi…

Chrome had the nifty break away title bar tabs before anyone else. The first time I saw break away tabs in Safari for Windows in 2007. Before Chrome was introduced.

Werent safari 3 tabs below the bookmark bar? Safari tabs on top werent until 2009 I wanna say. I thought they quickly reverted it as well. Like Maybe it was just the safari 4 beta?
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