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Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

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Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#71

Post by dessant »

viraptor wrote: post #66
dessant wrote: post #6

It's unfortunate how Apple and Google approach device ownership, and their attitude towards the concept of general computing is concerning. We do not control our own devices, we cannot stop certain processes on them, and we do not know where our personal data is sent. We either have to flash ROMs from questionable sources and apply temporary exploits to get some kind of resemblance of control of our own devices, or w…

I'm not sure Google really belongs here. Telcos and some companies licensing Android - sure. But unlocking actual Google phones, like Pixel, is literally available from the menu in the developer settings. It's a well known/documented process.

That only unlocks the bootloader, which then allows you to install a custom one. There is no built-in option on Android for gaining elevated priviledges in any form, not even in a restricted way to disable bloatware that might compromise your privacy, and rooting your device breaks OTA updates, which also include security patches.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#72

Post by nathancahill »

nikisweeting wrote: post #57

I'm just thankful for a working jailbreak on the latest version with no "Please update your iOS beta version" popup. It's like a dream come true.

Absolutely incredible to have a jailbreak on the latest signed version of iOS.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#73

Post by snowwrestler »

dessant wrote: post #53
athenot wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that approach is $popular_social_media app comes along and coaxes users to relax said privileges "because reasons" and before long there's a signigficant proportion of users who altered the security model of their device without understanding what is going on.

Personal freedoms have always had risks, but is it really warranted to take them away in this case and not offer a way to get them back in any shape or form? Looking at recent Samsung devices, is Google Services Framework really that integral to the security of my device that I must be forbidden from disabling that package? Isn't there an alternative way to achieve a comparable level of security, but without slurping…

Apple is not taking away personal freedoms.

They create products, which they offer for sale. People can freely choose to purchase those products or not.

Apple has opinions about how to make products, which are embodied in the products they offer for sale. Other companies have different opinions. This is how a market is supposed to work.

I don’t think we should talk about Apple as if they are a government taking away freedoms. It confers too much authority upon Apple and too much victimhood upon customers.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#74

Post by [deleted] »

andreasley wrote: post #19
dessant wrote: post #6

It's unfortunate how Apple and Google approach device ownership, and their attitude towards the concept of general computing is concerning. We do not control our own devices, we cannot stop certain processes on them, and we do not know where our personal data is sent. We either have to flash ROMs from questionable sources and apply temporary exploits to get some kind of resemblance of control of our own devices, or w…

I think Apple's approach is the only reasonable one for the general population. The technological complexity of any smartphone is far beyond comprehension for most people. I write iOS software for a living, and even with complete access to the source code, I couldn't reasonably evaluate my iPhone's software - let alone the hardware. The idea that ROMs from questionable sources make your device safer sounds very stran…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#75

Post by [deleted] »

dessant wrote: post #6

It's unfortunate how Apple and Google approach device ownership, and their attitude towards the concept of general computing is concerning. We do not control our own devices, we cannot stop certain processes on them, and we do not know where our personal data is sent. We either have to flash ROMs from questionable sources and apply temporary exploits to get some kind of resemblance of control of our own devices, or w…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#76

Post by jfk13 »

worble wrote: post #59
athenot wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that approach is $popular_social_media app comes along and coaxes users to relax said privileges "because reasons" and before long there's a signigficant proportion of users who altered the security model of their device without understanding what is going on.

If people do that, that's on them. So long as the device appropriately warns people, I fail to see how it's the companies problem to baby people who don't know what they're doing. It's their device, if they want to break out, let them. It's like saying "Why should we have knives? It's only a matter of time until $popular_social_media comes along and tells people to cut off their index fingers and before long there's…

No, it's not at all like that. Knife users will be perfectly capable of understanding what they're doing when they cut off their fingers, and assessing its impact on them. They don't even need pages of warning text to explain this.

That's not the case for smartphone (etc) users.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#77

Post by IgorPartola »

dessant wrote: post #32
andreasley wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Apple's approach is the only reasonable one for the general population. The technological complexity of any smartphone is far beyond comprehension for most people. I write iOS software for a living, and even with complete access to the source code, I couldn't reasonably evaluate my iPhone's software - let alone the hardware. The idea that ROMs from questionable sources make your device safer sounds very stran…

I think locking down a system by default, but offering a way to gain elevated priviledges, while educating and properly warning users before certain actions is better than taking away everyone's control over their own devices, and therefore restricting their freedom.

Realistically what would you gain by doing that?

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#78

Post by userbinator »

andreasley wrote: post #19
dessant wrote: post #6

It's unfortunate how Apple and Google approach device ownership, and their attitude towards the concept of general computing is concerning. We do not control our own devices, we cannot stop certain processes on them, and we do not know where our personal data is sent. We either have to flash ROMs from questionable sources and apply temporary exploits to get some kind of resemblance of control of our own devices, or w…

I think Apple's approach is the only reasonable one for the general population. The technological complexity of any smartphone is far beyond comprehension for most people. I write iOS software for a living, and even with complete access to the source code, I couldn't reasonably evaluate my iPhone's software - let alone the hardware. The idea that ROMs from questionable sources make your device safer sounds very stran…

The idea that ROMs from questionable sources make your device safer sounds very strange to me.

"questionable" according to who? The authoritarian companies and the whole "security" movement behind it, whose primary purpose is to turn the population into a mindless flock of consuming sheep that they can manipulate easily to extract profit...

The Android modding community is definitely not stupid, anyone who tries to deceive will soon be outed and ostracised. A lot of its members aren't all that smart; but it only takes one to find out and post proof.

Edit: the state of this comment reflects the state of the industry: spread fear and keep people from thinking for themselves.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#79

Post by krageon »

snowwrestler wrote: post #73
dessant wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal freedoms have always had risks, but is it really warranted to take them away in this case and not offer a way to get them back in any shape or form? Looking at recent Samsung devices, is Google Services Framework really that integral to the security of my device that I must be forbidden from disabling that package? Isn't there an alternative way to achieve a comparable level of security, but without slurping…

Apple is not taking away personal freedoms. They create products, which they offer for sale. People can freely choose to purchase those products or not. Apple has opinions about how to make products, which are embodied in the products they offer for sale. Other companies have different opinions. This is how a market is supposed to work. I don’t think we should talk about Apple as if they are a government taking away…

Are you seriously making the case we should be thankful about the restrictions they put on their products, because at least they exist? Is it somehow a problem to wish for things to be better, even though they could be worse?

They patently did contribute to the erosion of freedoms that people fundamentally used to have with their hardware.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#80

Post by r3bl »

andreasley wrote: post #70
r3bl wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that ROMs from questionable sources make your device safer sounds very strange to me. It's about owning your hardware, not safety. A person that's willing to go through the hassle knows the consequences of such actions and how to deal with them. Do "normal people" need to do that? Absolutely not. Should it be easy to do that? Absolutely not. But for those of us that really want to own our hardware, there s…

I totally agree, but I don't have any good ideas on how to implement that. I'm not even sure if such a barrier should be technological or legal.

Yeah, pointing to the problem is quite easier than figuring out a solution.

As far as I'm concerned, I actually read the popups and having to click okay about five or six times in a row would make me second-guess my decision. Would that work for everyone? Most of the people? Some of the people? I don't know that answer.

> I'm not even sure if such a barrier should be technological or legal.

My answer would be both. I highly doubt it's in hardware manufacturer's interest to figure out a technological solution, but if there's some legal incentive for them to at least try, they'll figure out a technological solution.

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