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Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

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Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#21

Post by onevu »

dessant wrote: post #6

It's unfortunate how Apple and Google approach device ownership, and their attitude towards the concept of general computing is concerning. We do not control our own devices, we cannot stop certain processes on them, and we do not know where our personal data is sent. We either have to flash ROMs from questionable sources and apply temporary exploits to get some kind of resemblance of control of our own devices, or w…

It's fortunate I can buy an iphone for my mum and she hasn't had a single problem with it.

On the other hand I bought my dad a laptop with Windows and despite having an antivirus he's had all kinds of problems with it, including some heavy duty adware.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#22

Post by threeseed »

dessant wrote: post #14
snaky wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you consider https://download.lineageos.org/ a questionable source?

I do not, but you have to be lucky enough to have a device that is supported by LineageOS, or you need to spend time learning the skills to build a custom ROM for your device. Why isn't there an option in developer mode that gives us a root shell on our Android devices? Why is an escape hatch that gives back control to the user so frightening for these companies?

It's because that same escape hatch can be used by bad actors.

And unfortunately as we have seen all too often users are willing to blindly do what they are told if they get something out of it e.g. free game, credits etc.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#24

Post by thefz »

andreasley wrote: post #19
dessant wrote: post #6

It's unfortunate how Apple and Google approach device ownership, and their attitude towards the concept of general computing is concerning. We do not control our own devices, we cannot stop certain processes on them, and we do not know where our personal data is sent. We either have to flash ROMs from questionable sources and apply temporary exploits to get some kind of resemblance of control of our own devices, or w…

I think Apple's approach is the only reasonable one for the general population. The technological complexity of any smartphone is far beyond comprehension for most people. I write iOS software for a living, and even with complete access to the source code, I couldn't reasonably evaluate my iPhone's software - let alone the hardware. The idea that ROMs from questionable sources make your device safer sounds very stran…

> The technological complexity of any smartphone is far beyond comprehension for most people.

Don't use it then. By shielding the stupid we are creating more stupid.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#25

Post by r3bl »

andreasley wrote: post #19
dessant wrote: post #6

It's unfortunate how Apple and Google approach device ownership, and their attitude towards the concept of general computing is concerning. We do not control our own devices, we cannot stop certain processes on them, and we do not know where our personal data is sent. We either have to flash ROMs from questionable sources and apply temporary exploits to get some kind of resemblance of control of our own devices, or w…

I think Apple's approach is the only reasonable one for the general population. The technological complexity of any smartphone is far beyond comprehension for most people. I write iOS software for a living, and even with complete access to the source code, I couldn't reasonably evaluate my iPhone's software - let alone the hardware. The idea that ROMs from questionable sources make your device safer sounds very stran…

> The idea that ROMs from questionable sources make your device safer sounds very strange to me.

It's about owning your hardware, not safety. A person that's willing to go through the hassle knows the consequences of such actions and how to deal with them.

Do "normal people" need to do that? Absolutely not. Should it be easy to do that? Absolutely not. But for those of us that really want to own our hardware, there should be a way of doing so without relying on exploits.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#26

Post by [deleted] »

threeseed wrote: post #22
dessant wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not, but you have to be lucky enough to have a device that is supported by LineageOS, or you need to spend time learning the skills to build a custom ROM for your device. Why isn't there an option in developer mode that gives us a root shell on our Android devices? Why is an escape hatch that gives back control to the user so frightening for these companies?

It's because that same escape hatch can be used by bad actors. And unfortunately as we have seen all too often users are willing to blindly do what they are told if they get something out of it e.g. free game, credits etc.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#27

Post by coldtea »

dessant wrote: post #6

It's unfortunate how Apple and Google approach device ownership, and their attitude towards the concept of general computing is concerning. We do not control our own devices, we cannot stop certain processes on them, and we do not know where our personal data is sent. We either have to flash ROMs from questionable sources and apply temporary exploits to get some kind of resemblance of control of our own devices, or w…

Or, you know, buy something else.

Before the"locked devices, people had the inverse problem:

everything was two open ended and complicated, could cripple the system, stuff was open for exploit (much more so than in this case of unpatched vulnerability, viruses were everyday occurence). Techies didn't have this issue, but the general public did (heck, even techies did suffer somewhat). And that might have been OK for when the PC was an unconnected tool, but not when everybody has one with them, from school to nursing home, and everybody buys and does tons of sensitive stuff from it, while connected 24/7.

Whereas you can give a 2-year old an iPad, and they can start using it just fine...

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#28

Post by adrianN »

rimliu wrote: post #20
dessant wrote: post #6

It's unfortunate how Apple and Google approach device ownership, and their attitude towards the concept of general computing is concerning. We do not control our own devices, we cannot stop certain processes on them, and we do not know where our personal data is sent. We either have to flash ROMs from questionable sources and apply temporary exploits to get some kind of resemblance of control of our own devices, or w…

There are things I want to control, and there are things I do not want to control. Smartphone is not a "general purpose computer" and I want just use it not to babysit it. And more often than not having "control over your own" device means that is is just some malware that has this control, not the user.

Your smartphone has all the hardware that it needs to be a general purpose computer. If you could plug in a decent screen and connect a mouse and a keyboard it would be more powerful than the computers you used just a few years ago.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#29

Post by 420codebro »

thefz wrote: post #24
andreasley wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Apple's approach is the only reasonable one for the general population. The technological complexity of any smartphone is far beyond comprehension for most people. I write iOS software for a living, and even with complete access to the source code, I couldn't reasonably evaluate my iPhone's software - let alone the hardware. The idea that ROMs from questionable sources make your device safer sounds very stran…

> The technological complexity of any smartphone is far beyond comprehension for most people. Don't use it then. By shielding the stupid we are creating more stupid.

That’s not your call to make, ace.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#30

Post by coldtea »

thefz wrote: post #24
andreasley wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Apple's approach is the only reasonable one for the general population. The technological complexity of any smartphone is far beyond comprehension for most people. I write iOS software for a living, and even with complete access to the source code, I couldn't reasonably evaluate my iPhone's software - let alone the hardware. The idea that ROMs from questionable sources make your device safer sounds very stran…

> The technological complexity of any smartphone is far beyond comprehension for most people. Don't use it then. By shielding the stupid we are creating more stupid.

That idea is stupid in itself.

The whole of civilization has been a process of shielding people from having to know stuff.

The same way you don't know how to make fire from first principles, fix your car, make a CPU, or whatever...

Even someone with a Ph.D in computer hardware is shielded from tons of complexities and never has to know the whole process end to end.

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