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Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

reuters.com

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Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#121

Post by alasdair_ »

briandear wrote: post #80
outworlder wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do we have EV car fire frequencies for comparison with ICE engines? Without denominators saying “all cats burn” is overly reductive. Fine. And yet, is Reuters reporting those? In fact, why is Reuters even talking about cars? Tesla fires feature very prominently in the news whenever they happen. When was the last time anyone here saw news of ICE fires? I only ever see those in local news, and only if they caused oth…

ICE cars aren’t catching on fire due to design defects, generally. They don’t spontaneously combust. There is almost always a causal factor unrelated to the actual car. Tesla’s could conceivably catch fire sitting in your driveway.

> Tesla’s could conceivably catch fire sitting in your driveway.

My mother had to drag me out of an ICE car when I was three because it caught fire in our driveway, so I'm not sure you're comparing equivalent things.

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#122

Post by heimatau »

nominated1 wrote: post #39

A friend of mine is a union electrician with 15 years in the trade. He’s helped install dozens of solar farms across Northern California. One thing I found interesting/unnerving was that apparently the spacing tolerances between panels is quite low. He said it’s their biggest concern when it comes to fires. So, maintenance seems like a must. Especially on rooftops or structures that will naturally “settle” over time.…

sarcher's example of JLC. It does look like a faulty optimizer, which is a DC electronic for each panel.

As for Walmart, it's a lot to unpack.

> dozens showing hazardous problems such as loose wiring and “hot spots” on panels, according to court papers filed in New York State Supreme Court.

Loose wiring? A lot of setups are mostly plug and go. If they had to splice one wire, it's only a minute process to do and if they used their eyes for a few seconds (I'm describing the literal process of splicing a panel wire. I'm not demeaning the work. It's minutes. 3 max, if you brought the parts on the roof.) As for the other connections a solar installation may need, the time it takes it one minute for all connections on the roof. For the 244 panel setup of Walmart, 30 minutes tops (20.3 minutes to be closer to realistic because there might be 21 j-boxes, each connecting 12 panels to the main array).

Hot Spots? I have no idea about that one. It's too vague.

At a different location, this is what Walmart said: >One of the fires happened months after the system was de-energized, Walmart said.

I don't understand this one at all. Tesla/SolarCity must be using very cheap electronics because this shouldn't happen. Each panel's optimizer should be equipped for the situation when they aren't producing usable power.

Source: I worked in residential solar for about 6 months and as an electrician for two years. I'm not a bona fide source but I'm better than most because I've paid attention to everything that was taught to me. Plus I'm looking into starting my own Solar company.

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#123

Post by dehrmann »

Clent wrote: post #19
omfg wrote: post #3

Wasn’t this work done during the SolarCity years?

I found that interesting as well. The article is trying to link solar panel failures to Tesla vehicle failures. They were not born from the same company nor process. It seems whatever generated the story was looking for some segue into how the price is down. The stock price was affected by the market's new knowledge. They both contain words for fire but are otherwise independent and distant events in Tesla's history.…

> They were not born from the same company nor process

But their founders are cousins.

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#124

Post by heimatau »

avs733 wrote: post #103
egdod wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that cause a fire?

Theorizing... Reduced gaps can limit/change air circulation. No matter the efficiency, solar panels absorb/create a nontrivial amount of heat that could be trapped underneath. That heat alone could be a problem or it could accelerate wear of other systems/parts. You could also have breakage, rubbing, pulling, or other mechanical issues that can result in shorts and by extension fires. What is in the article suggests…

Very interesting theory when it comes to the change in air circulation. But I can't imagine a situation where that would occur unless Walmart's claims are valid on 'poor installation'. The brackets, that hold up the rails, that go into the roof should lock in and shouldn't be any cause for concern.

The underbelly of the panels do run warm but they aren't hot, except in extreme heat. Nor is there any thought to the air circulation when designing a system, since the panels themselves don't have holes in the sides to encourage flow between an array.

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#125

Post by heimatau »

markrote wrote: post #8

The Walton Family also happens to own much of First Solar, a competing provider of photovoltaic cells.

Hmm. I didn't know this but that's a solid observation.

Regardless, SolarCity probably did a poor installation job with cheap parts. They have a reputation among other Solar installers and it's not a good one.

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#126

Post by vageli »

kryogen1c wrote: post #97
egdod wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what a vexatious litigant is. Hundreds of thousands of dollars is a real loss.

Is it? Wal-Mart's revenue is 500billion. 500 thosand is .0001%. If you make 200k, thats like suing someone over 20 bucks

> Is it? Wal-Mart's revenue is 500billion. 500 thosand is .0001%. If you make 200k, thats like suing someone over 20 bucks

So we just accept violations of the law because of some arbitrary scale you made up? Can you cite any laws that grant amnesty for thefts _under_ a certain dollar amount?

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#127

Post by Gustomaximus »

grecy wrote: post #22
camjohnson26 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Walton family collectively is worth over $150 billion, it’s not surprising they have exposure to a solar company somewhere in their vast fortune. If you’re implying that this lawsuit has no merit because of that investment that seems like an incredibly shaky accusation.

It's a little curious they wouldn't choose to buy panels from a company they own.... don't you think?

Not at all. Obviously more to it but these are the 2 main reasons I see;

1) Walmart would have a procurement department. These guys probaly have no idea of the likely 1000's of investment companies the Walton family own.

2) As a listed company, Walmart procurement would contact jobs like this to the best offer, not to seperate companies that happen to be owned by shareholders.

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#129

Post by MertsA »

egdod wrote: post #118
kryogen1c wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This lawsuit could drag on for years and cost a significant portion of the amount being sued over because the value is so small. Hardly an equivalence.

Tons of lawsuits are brought for under 100k. This argument applies to all of them. The fact that Wal-Mart is a big company doesn't change anything.

Especially Walmart, which routinely prosecutes shoplifters even over trivial amounts to curb theft.

Re: Walmart sues Tesla over fires at stores fitted with its solar panels

#130

Post by autokad »

RadioHacker wrote: post #109
NetBeck wrote: post #33

>totaling hundreds of thousands of dollars in out-of-pocket losses, Walmart said in the lawsuit. This amount is immaterial for each party involved.

This really doesn't matter. The fires endanger lives. Some things are more important than money. I should hope you'd realize that.

yeah and 5 fires on just 240 stores sounds like a staggering amount
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