Live data from Hacker News

The Financialization of the American Elite

americanaffairsjournal.org

51–60 of 85 posts

Re: The Financialization of the American Elite

#51
post #43

“Hedge funds, pri­vate equity firms, and investment banks are just the first order play­ers.“ Aren’t these all basically the same thing?

Quick rundown:

- Private equity firms invest in businesses that are not publicly traded. For example, they invest in startups that are seeking to grow and eventually IPO.

- Investment banks help existing firms undertake financial transactions such as issuing new debt or new shares, and serve as brokers for e.g. sales of small businesses to new owners.

- Hedge funds make speculative bets on existing financial assets they believe are over- or under-priced.

Re: The Financialization of the American Elite

#52
post #36

Very interesting article. I think what a lot of these articles lack is a discussion of the role that monetary policy plays in the financialization of the American (and, indeed, global) economy. While I agree that there are other factors that lead to the rise of shareholder primacy, I think the most important one is the distortion of relative capital proportions in the economy largely caused through the mechanism of m…

I think the firehose we have now of unconstrined fiat currency will go down in the history books as an aberration in the history of money. Money and the economy are part of the bedrock of modern society and the human interactions that happen on a macro and micro level. When you get down to it fiat currencies like the USD became uncoupled from reality when it went off being pegged to a physical amount of gold/silver.…

Everything is smoke and mirrors. The price of a thing is completely determined by the perception of value and what people are willing to pay or sell at.

The problem with the glut of cheap credit is that it created the means to leverage capital on a scale that essentially embed rent seekers into every facet of life to the detriment of those without.

Those already with property were able to become landlords on a massive scale because credit was cheap, pushing up demand and pricing out those seeking their first home.

Fund managers were able to borrow massive amounts to buy into every business possible to the detriment of other business stakeholders and often the business itself. The economy as a whole suffered as generating quarterly returns and accumulating wealth trumped business growth and production. Because this occurred on a global level the social compact was broken.

I can only see two ways out of this:

A tax on wealth (70%+) might be the means to creating a "spend it or lose it" attitude and force the promised "trickle down" promised when the laws were changed to allow this aberration.

Or we need a multi-trillion dollar debt forgiveness program to reset the economy back to a place people are not so burdened by debt (from putting a roof over their heads, getting an education or requiring healthcare) that they can't afford anything.

Re: The Financialization of the American Elite

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the firehose we have now of unconstrined fiat currency will go down in the history books as an aberration in the history of money. Money and the economy are part of the bedrock of modern society and the human interactions that happen on a macro and micro level. When you get down to it fiat currencies like the USD became uncoupled from reality when it went off being pegged to a physical amount of gold/silver.…

The Class of 1982 was special in graduating at the very inception of what has become a nearly 40-year bull market in credit, which is mostly a story of monetary and regulatory policy. When the books are written 100 years from now, they will explain this period as a hyperinflation that our HBS-trained leaders in government and finance managed to trap mostly in financial assets, all the while counter-intuitively justif…

> they will explain this period as a hyperinflation

No, they won't, because it wasn't.

Re: The Financialization of the American Elite

#54
Hmm...this article, along with Elizabeth Warren's recent proposals make me think that maybe the answer we ought to be looking at is something quite simple: Provide significant tax advantages to compensating employees with equity. If the problem is that employees are losing at the expense of shareholders...well, let's make them shareholders.

Re: The Financialization of the American Elite

#55
post #36

Very interesting article. I think what a lot of these articles lack is a discussion of the role that monetary policy plays in the financialization of the American (and, indeed, global) economy. While I agree that there are other factors that lead to the rise of shareholder primacy, I think the most important one is the distortion of relative capital proportions in the economy largely caused through the mechanism of m…

Expand supply of money with money that didn't previously exist. Recipients gain access to the new money mostly from borrowing, and pay back the money with previously existing money. When recipients fail to reach previously existing money due to limitations of the size of the market, new debt is no longer available, and the recipient's remaining resources are taken instead.

Expand, contract. I think it is a great way for the state-sanctioned stewards of the economy to understanding the size of the market and the current limits of global resource distribution by having so much data.

I wish there were entertaining videos on this concept that weren't also trying to "wake people up" to something "bad". Where is the "here is the effect of the business cycle", "here are the tools to play this game more effectively".

Re: The Financialization of the American Elite

#56
post #36

Very interesting article. I think what a lot of these articles lack is a discussion of the role that monetary policy plays in the financialization of the American (and, indeed, global) economy. While I agree that there are other factors that lead to the rise of shareholder primacy, I think the most important one is the distortion of relative capital proportions in the economy largely caused through the mechanism of m…

I think the firehose we have now of unconstrined fiat currency will go down in the history books as an aberration in the history of money. Money and the economy are part of the bedrock of modern society and the human interactions that happen on a macro and micro level. When you get down to it fiat currencies like the USD became uncoupled from reality when it went off being pegged to a physical amount of gold/silver.…

The history of the Spanish Conquistadors successful search for physical gold in the new world has been written and it is a period of inflation in Spain. Instead of focusing on bringing back real wealth from the new world (coffee, chocolate, tomatoes, potatoes), they brought back useless yellow metal that just caused inflation.

The idea is to match the money supply to the real wealth in the economy. I don't disagree with your assertion that we are seeing a decoupling of money from real wealth, but the gold standard is no guarantee against inflation - or worse, deflation.

Re: The Financialization of the American Elite

#57
post #54

Hmm...this article, along with Elizabeth Warren's recent proposals make me think that maybe the answer we ought to be looking at is something quite simple: Provide significant tax advantages to compensating employees with equity. If the problem is that employees are losing at the expense of shareholders...well, let's make them shareholders.

It's a bad idea to put both your money and your career into the same basket. Either the employees will immediately sell the equity, which will essentially make this just a tax cut, or (if they can't) they'll be in a dangerous position and the next recession will be devastating.

Re: The Financialization of the American Elite

#58
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Class of 1982 was special in graduating at the very inception of what has become a nearly 40-year bull market in credit, which is mostly a story of monetary and regulatory policy. When the books are written 100 years from now, they will explain this period as a hyperinflation that our HBS-trained leaders in government and finance managed to trap mostly in financial assets, all the while counter-intuitively justif…

> they will explain this period as a hyperinflation No, they won't, because it wasn't.

Ok, ok, asset price inflation measured by the S&P 500 has been about 9% annually from $123 in 1982 to $2,920 in 2019. In addition, the availability of debt amplifies increases. For example, the Case-Shiller Home Price Index increased from 100 to 220 between 2000 and 2019 (about 4% annually), but owners often leverage 80% at the start, and they actually have a 13% annual return (less carrying costs)-- lets say double the nominal return.

If high finance generated a ROI of 9% x 2 on average since 1982, through asset price gains magnified by leverage ... that would be 64% every 3 years, on average for almost 40 years. That's a remarkable inflationary event, however you choose to define 'hyperinflation.'

Re: The Financialization of the American Elite

#59
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only in the history of money, but in the history of humanity. Think of all the lost prosperity that has been siphoned off since 1971 and the collective rise in living standards people could have afforded. We are very comfortable as technologists and other high-paying (read: inflationary) professionals, but there is a large class of people who are getting thoroughly shafted by these monetary policies and they are…

It's not even the descent into poverty by the former middle classes - although that in itself is barbaric. The deeper problem is the opportunity cost - the small businesses that were never started, and the inventions, innovations, and other developments that never happened because financialised markets were more interested in speculation, wealth capture, scamming, and gambling than in fringe high-risk speculative R&D…

You hit it.

My younger cousins were a lot more well off than my side of the family, went to private or high competitive schools from kindergarten on, and are super smart.

I used to hang out with them and their friends from time to time, and it struck me how uniform their aspirations all were. Investment Banking, Consulting or medicine. Maybe a few wanted to be lawyers.

It struck me then and now as an incredible waste of talent.

Re: The Financialization of the American Elite

#60
post #54

Hmm...this article, along with Elizabeth Warren's recent proposals make me think that maybe the answer we ought to be looking at is something quite simple: Provide significant tax advantages to compensating employees with equity. If the problem is that employees are losing at the expense of shareholders...well, let's make them shareholders.

You can't really make people into shareholders--at least not into successful investors.

The reason many (most?) people aren't shareholders is because they simply can't afford to save. You can't eat AAPL. You can't clothe your baby in JNJ. People should "pay themselves first" as savings but the reality for the normal person working 3 jobs in order to hold their household together is there's no room to pay yourself first--you barely make enough to survive. Even if you have $100 in your pocket at the end of the month, if you use it to buy a stock you're -10% right off the bat due to brokerage fees.

What are some ways a company can try to "make" their employee into one of the shareholder class?

Well, they can just give their employees company stock in lieu of some other compensation, but then the employee is stuck with this risky single-equity portfolio which they either need to sell (minus transaction fees and taxes) then use to buy some other diversified investment (minus transaction fees), or hold on to and risk being the next Enron casualty.

They can offer a 401K and even match contributions, but this requires the employee to deliberately elect to participate, which only makes sense if your basic needs are already met. 401Ks seem to mostly benefit middle class and affluent people who already budget for saving. Plus most 401K plans I've seen are loaded with expenses that eat a significant percentage of participants' savings.

Maybe the government can step in. People talk about Basic Income... Maybe instead of cash basic income offer basic equity: every American could be issued N shares of SPY every month or something. Let everyone have some basic baseline skin in the financial system game. This helps everyone benefit, not just employees.

Maybe instead of tax refunds being a big lump of cash, they can default to being issued as treasury bonds.

I don't know. "Tax breaks to corporation, hoping they in turn act nice" hasn't worked out very well for us.

Post reply on HN