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Google's software mistreats or harms the user

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Re: Google's software mistreats or harms the user

#51

Post by johannes1234321 »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #25

Almost all of this is heavily exaggerated, presenting relatively innocuous features as if they were harmful, or calling out simple bugs as if they were intentional and actively malicious. None of it is flat-out wrong per-se (at least as far as I can tell), and I can certainly see where GNU is coming from, but I think for the average user most of the features they're criticizing actually do a lot more good than harm.…

Picking a random point: DRM is malware. It is extra software with the only purpose to limit what I can do.

Of course there is no alternative as long as consumers accept it. And consumers don't care since it all seems to work.

Re: Google's software mistreats or harms the user

#52

Post by [deleted] »

leshow wrote: post #39
Ajedi32 wrote: post #25

Almost all of this is heavily exaggerated, presenting relatively innocuous features as if they were harmful, or calling out simple bugs as if they were intentional and actively malicious. None of it is flat-out wrong per-se (at least as far as I can tell), and I can certainly see where GNU is coming from, but I think for the average user most of the features they're criticizing actually do a lot more good than harm.…

> - They describe Google's demonstrated ability to remove malware from user's devices as a "backdoor" from wikipedia "A backdoor is a method, often secret, of bypassing normal authentication or encryption in a computer system, a product, or an embedded device " Seems to fit. > - They describe parental controls as "censorship" "Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the…

[deleted]

Re: Google's software mistreats or harms the user

#53

Post by notyourday »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #47
decoyworker wrote: post #31

https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-apple.html Apple's Operating Systems are Malware Is there anything these guys like? Stallman and Gnu are extremists

> Is there anything these guys like? Free (as in freedom) Software. > Stallman and Gnu are extremists The word you're looking for is "radicals"; "extremists" carries connotations with violence and illegal behavior, which is the exact opposite of what Stallman/FSF stand for. Are these views radical? Yes. But are they wrong ? The way I see it, RMS has been writing about what's wrong with the software world for decades…

Look, I like RMS. I casually know him. We had dinner a few times, mostly with other people at the table. He is very interesting to talk to.

It pains me to say it but he is a Luddite. He would be quite happy in the world of late 1980s because that's where him and his quaint way of technology, society and progress fits in swimmingly. And maybe he is right.

But here's the thing: he simply outsourced his need for modern communications to others -- he does not call restaurants to make reservations, his hosts do. He does not use GPS and maps -- drivers that his hosts use do. He does not need to use a banking app/deal with payments/scheduling/etc that are needed for him to appear at conferences -- those that invite him do.

I wish I could have a life like that. Probably a lot of us would. All the advantages and none of the inconveniences.

Re: Google's software mistreats or harms the user

#54

Post by decoyworker »

normalhuman wrote: post #30
Ajedi32 wrote: post #25

Almost all of this is heavily exaggerated, presenting relatively innocuous features as if they were harmful, or calling out simple bugs as if they were intentional and actively malicious. None of it is flat-out wrong per-se (at least as far as I can tell), and I can certainly see where GNU is coming from, but I think for the average user most of the features they're criticizing actually do a lot more good than harm.…

The average user certainly doesn't worry about any of this, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't. The worst, of course, is the tragedy of the commons dynamics. A lot of harm that comes from surveillance capitalism does not affect someone in particular, but it amounts to great damage to society as a whole. For example, by degrading public discourse, addicting people to screen time while robbing them of living the…

If we are in the business of telling society what they SHOULD care about I'd wager about a hundred other things are more important than free software.

Re: Google's software mistreats or harms the user

#56

Post by TeMPOraL »

scblock wrote: post #44
Ajedi32 wrote: post #25

Almost all of this is heavily exaggerated, presenting relatively innocuous features as if they were harmful, or calling out simple bugs as if they were intentional and actively malicious. None of it is flat-out wrong per-se (at least as far as I can tell), and I can certainly see where GNU is coming from, but I think for the average user most of the features they're criticizing actually do a lot more good than harm.…

Absolutely this. There are real issues worth real discussion, both on this post and their related Apple post. But these are the posts of a conspiracy theorist instead; they don't enable any sort of rational discussion.

How is that? All the claims are strictly true. They just carry a moral judgement some people disagree with, and most people don't care about. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's enumeration of facts.

Re: Google's software mistreats or harms the user

#57

Post by saagarjha »

19ylram49 wrote: post #36
saagarjha wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignore this list and find a better one that actually represents the issues fairly.

Many of the points made are legitimate concerns. I’m guessing that you work for Google (or Apple)?

Neither. There are valid arguments against both companies, but these aren't it.

Re: Google's software mistreats or harms the user

#58

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

decoyworker wrote: post #31

https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-apple.html Apple's Operating Systems are Malware Is there anything these guys like? Stallman and Gnu are extremists

> Is there anything these guys like? Stallman and Gnu are extremists

People fighting for human rights have always been labeled extremists, it's not a particularly original idea you had there.

Re: Google's software mistreats or harms the user

#59

Post by pgcj_poster »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #47
decoyworker wrote: post #31

https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-apple.html Apple's Operating Systems are Malware Is there anything these guys like? Stallman and Gnu are extremists

> Is there anything these guys like? Free (as in freedom) Software. > Stallman and Gnu are extremists The word you're looking for is "radicals"; "extremists" carries connotations with violence and illegal behavior, which is the exact opposite of what Stallman/FSF stand for. Are these views radical? Yes. But are they wrong ? The way I see it, RMS has been writing about what's wrong with the software world for decades…

“Though I was initially disappointed at being categorized as an extremist, as I continued to think about the matter I gradually gained a measure of satisfaction from the label. Was not Jesus an extremist for love? … So the question is not whether we will be extremists, but what kind of extremists we will be. Will we be extremists for hate or for love? Will we be extremists for the preservation of injustice or for the extension of justice?”

Re: Google's software mistreats or harms the user

#60

Post by craigsmansion »

19ylram49 wrote: post #26

As an Android user, what are some ways that I can deal with the problems addressed here? (I already do a number of things, but I’m curious what everyone else does.)

Install f-droid (https://f-droid.org/) and take a look around the repository to see if there is any software that can replace some other application you are using.

Maybe some alternatives might not be as polished as you're used to, but having to approve only logical permissions and software doing exactly what it should do and nothing more provides for a peaceful state of mind.

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