People love working remotely • Hacker News Board

Re: People love working remotely

#171

Post by Paul-ish » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 4:28 PM UTC

LanceH wrote: post #63

g051051 wrote: post #16

I was full-time WFH for 6 wonderful years. I was happy, my productivity was off the charts, I was saving tons of money because I didn't have to spend it on my car and clothes, I had extra time that I wasn't wasting on my commute, etc. Then, we had a big shake-up. A bunch of senior people left, and new "leadership" came in to "transform" our workplace. All WFH was cancelled in our division (in spite of still being off…

25 years of this and not once has someone responsible for implementing the open plan included themselves in that plan. Sales and marketing somehow require offices as well. I've heard of the mythical "president in a cubicle" but never seen it. I would really have more respect if they just came out and said, "we're going cheap."

When I was an intern at Mozilla 2 years ago the open floorplan included the CEO.

Re: People love working remotely

#172

Post by Nursie » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 4:31 PM UTC

okmokmz wrote: post #159

Nursie wrote: post #14

I work remotely 2 days a week. I'd quite like to go to 3 and might soon. But without being in the office a couple of days a week for collaboration, a lot of stuff just wouldn't work. Conference calls, slack and email are no substitute for the face-to-face conversations that can resolve blocking issues in a few seconds versus a few hours. I'd definitely recommend partial remote working. Not sure I'd want it fully.

>Conference calls, slack and email are no substitute for the face-to-face conversations that can resolve blocking issues in a few seconds versus a few hours. I haven't found this to be the case

I do, continually, particularly when communicating with the less technically inclined. Slack conversations can drag on, email chains take days, conference calls are great when everyone's paying attention but that's not often (IMHO).

Tem minutes in a room discussing an issue with all interested parties can sort things out far faster, in my experience.

Which may not be universally applicable - I'm not claiming it is, or that fully remote working doesn't work for others. Just that I've seen it be less than perfect on a few occasions.

Re: People love working remotely

#173

Post by chad_strategic » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 4:36 PM UTC

wolco wrote: post #104

g051051 wrote: post #16

I was full-time WFH for 6 wonderful years. I was happy, my productivity was off the charts, I was saving tons of money because I didn't have to spend it on my car and clothes, I had extra time that I wasn't wasting on my commute, etc. Then, we had a big shake-up. A bunch of senior people left, and new "leadership" came in to "transform" our workplace. All WFH was cancelled in our division (in spite of still being off…

Happened to me. What I did was go into the office and constantly talk to the vp's and ceo. Not about anything important really boring weather/how are you doing? The more removed the person from my department the more I would go out of my way to talk to them. Start asking difficult questions at the all staff forums. Always threw in doubts in meetings with non-tech people. I asked for a special chair for my back. Start…

Well played!

In the TV show "What we do in the shadows" this is called an energy vampire. (you suck out other energy) Also a great show.

Re: People love working remotely

#174

Post by ken » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 4:36 PM UTC

Agentlien wrote: post #131

ken wrote: post #19

Elephant in the room: how many of these people would prefer it to having a private office ? Strangely, this article/survey/infographic never mentions that option. I'd prefer remote work, too, over sitting in an open floorplan office, but I'd much prefer an actual office to either one. The easy "why" is: despite all the drawbacks, a lot of us will do pretty much anything to get out of an open floorplan.

I had a private office for a couple of years. I've also worked in open plan landscapes as well as offices with 4-8 people. This year, however, I've started working from home a lot. I like it much more than any of the above and generally get so much more done. I can relax and breathe in my own home. Make some tea and sit in the garden when I need to think. My focus, productivity and well being have been through the ro…

Maybe I'm missing it, but these still sound like variations on the theme of "my office is lousy so working from home is relatively nicer".

An hour commute is just nuts. According to statistics I found, that's more than double the average. I've worked at places with a 5 minute commute, and they're great. I realize not everyone has infinite flexibility in where they live, but a workplace would have to be pretty amazing in every other way to make me spend an hour every day getting there.

I've worked at places that had a garden or park right outside, and it's terrific to go out there and think. Why don't all knowledge worker offices have this? When I look at what the big tech companies are building, it's certainly not that they can't afford a garden.

We used to know this. Do an image search for "university campus" (those other places where people sit around and think) and you'll see buildings in a sea of grass and trees. Yet do an image search for "company campus" and it's all steel and glass, with greenery only to fill in the small useless spaces between the parking lot and the building.

What good is a workplace for thinkers, if it doesn't include good places for thinking?

Re: People love working remotely

#175

Post by Dibes » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 4:37 PM UTC

jdavis703 wrote: post #168

What I hate is being lonely. They're shutting down our offices for cost savings. As such I've basically been straight work from home. Working from home reminds me of the isolation of being homeschooled. I love having the flexibility to work remote on certain days, for example when I need to bang out a bunch of code. But, having a place to interact with people is invaluable for me. I imagine countless others feel the…

As someone who has worked from home for over 2 years now, I have found the best way to counteract loneliness for me is to have weekly scheduled time with friends to play board games, hop on and play games at night with friends, and to sometimes go sit in a crowded coffee shop. I have also been remote calling some other friends at work to just shoot the shit, and work on our separate things while in a call. Between those things, it usually sates my need for social interactions. As a side thought, I have noticed that creating a dedicated work space as apposed to working from the sofa or any other place in the house has helped reduce the amount of loneliness or isolation I feel for some reason.

That being said, sometimes I do still find myself feeling a tad lonely at times and is something I still am figuring out the best ways to manage. I still believe that the benefits of remote work still vastly outweigh a typical office job and it would be very hard for me to give up my current situation.

Re: People love working remotely

#176

Post by lobotryas » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 4:39 PM UTC

ken wrote: post #19

Elephant in the room: how many of these people would prefer it to having a private office ? Strangely, this article/survey/infographic never mentions that option. I'd prefer remote work, too, over sitting in an open floorplan office, but I'd much prefer an actual office to either one. The easy "why" is: despite all the drawbacks, a lot of us will do pretty much anything to get out of an open floorplan.

Consider the option of open office two days and WFH three other days. I’d find that better than commuting 3 hours round trip through traffic for 5 days.

Re: People love working remotely

#177

Post by bradlys » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

okmokmz wrote: post #148

patagonia wrote: post #121

To those complaining about the commute. You’re complaining about city and transportation architecture, not workplace design. We are social creatures. I don’t understand the complete lack of addressing the issue: 8 hours a day I’m cut off from people except virtually. Prisons that force virtual visitation are criticized for this exact issue.

You're really comparing prisons that only allow virtual communication to working remotely? Lets brainstorm a list of ways that you can see people while working from home that you couldn't from prison. 1. If you have any family members that will be home throughout the day you can see them 2. You can step outside and talk to your neighbors 3. You can take a 10 minute break to walk to a local store/park 4. You can go ou…

Many people need more than just their immediate family. Neighbors are a terrible source of social interaction. Where I am, our neighbors refuse to interact with us except to complain about something like noise or street parking.

Been to a park during the day? It's nanny's and mom's. How many are going to be like, "yeah, random dude approaching me and trying to chat me up. Great!" Most are sketched out unless you got a kid with you. I've been in this situation and they look at you very weirdly. (How desperate must you be to go to a park to chat with moms?)

Lunch requires friends who also can do such a thing. I go out to lunch with coworkers very often.

You can invite anyone who isn't working or can work remotely with you. Sure, I did do this for a bit. I'd drive 30 minutes away to see my friend and we'd work remotely together about once a week. But then I was actually going further than my commute to work! Hah!

And so can anyone with a non remote job.

You can have the quiet and isolation while not working remotely. It's just that it's not valued in many workplaces anymore.

BTW, I don't get how people think that working remotely means isolation and quiet?? When I worked remotely, there were plenty of days where I had to take tons of long Skype calls, had to chat endlessly with people over IM, and then send more emails on top of it. I barely got any "work" done and didn't get to focus because everything required my attention.

Isolation and quiet is more than an environment. It includes details around a culture around workplace communication styles and how much you prioritize immediate responses.

Re: People love working remotely

#178

Post by djhalon » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

nickjj wrote: post #142

I've been working remotely for my entire freelance career (~20 years). Very occasionally I'll go on site for certain local clients but that's not the norm. There's huge wins for working remotely that everyone has already stated but the isolation factor is real, especially if you're single. It might seem fun for a while (couple of months) to not wear pants at work and be able to put in 4 super productive hours of work…

I worked remotely as a consultant for 12 years, before going back to full-time in an office job. The main driving factor for going back was the lack of consistent social interaction. I started my remote career in San Francisco, where I had non-work activities that were very active in the local community for nearly a decade. I was going out regularly and had many close friends. Being in a walkable area with decent public transportation was perfect for ease of social interactions.

I later moved to a city in southern California, which was a more suburban environment. It wasn't walkable, you had to take a car everywhere and I didn't know anyone other than my partner when we first moved here. I now was in a situation where I had to re-establish my social connections without my previous activities (I had stopped being involved a few years before the move) and I also didn't have a work environment where I had also made many social connections over the years.

For the first 5+ years, this was fine, I was able to make a handful of new friends but many of them started moving because of cost of living and starting new families. At this point, I feel like it really started to become determinantal to my mental health. Honestly, it took a long time for me to even notice and admit it was affecting me, but eventually, it was pretty debilitating. This wasn't the only source, but it was a major factor to be sure.

That being said, after being back in the office for 2 years (they have pretty strong no work at home policy) I am ready to go back to remote work. I loved the benefits of remote work but I also now am much more aware of the importance of getting out and finding more social activities to balance this out. Also, I wouldn't go back as a consultant. Having a rotating cast of people you interact with made it much harder to form longer-term social bonds and also there was never dedicated time planned to meet in person at regular intervals, as a lot of remote-first companies do.

I love and really miss the flexibility of my schedule and if I can find an environment that supports stable interactions with people and I continue to re-engage in more social activities outside of work, I would jump back into remote work in a heartbeat.

Re: People love working remotely

#179

Post by ken » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 4:44 PM UTC

chewbacha wrote: post #44

ken wrote: post #19

Elephant in the room: how many of these people would prefer it to having a private office ? Strangely, this article/survey/infographic never mentions that option. I'd prefer remote work, too, over sitting in an open floorplan office, but I'd much prefer an actual office to either one. The easy "why" is: despite all the drawbacks, a lot of us will do pretty much anything to get out of an open floorplan.

Many would for sure like a private office! But, there are big advantages of remote work over private offices: 1. Lower cost to the company. Private offices are expensive to build and maintain. 2. Less commute time to the employee. Private offices still require commuting which impacts the environment and the employees personal time. 3. Job flexibility. Home workers have (or will have) more options for employment. 4. N…

> 1. Lower cost to the company. Private offices are expensive to build and maintain.

You're just pushing that cost to the employee. Are you paying them the amount saved, to furnish their own private offices? Or are you just penalizing the worker to save a buck?

> 3. Job flexibility. Home workers have (or will have) more options for employment.

I have not seen this. Most companies still don't offer remote work.

> 4. No relocation expenses. Relocating an employee costs a few thousand dollars, hiring them and letting them stay put is cheaper.

Again, maybe it's different now, but I've worked at several tech companies, and never been offered "relocation expenses".

> 5. Maintain ties to community.

What does this mean? The company? The worker? It seems like the company not employing local workers, and the worker not leaving their house, would be worse for community all around.

Re: People love working remotely

#180

Post by loblollyboy » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 4:45 PM UTC

jriot wrote: post #103

ReptileMan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. For me commute is the most pointlessly wasted time a person could do. And I have played lineage. So as long as your commute is 10 seconds home office beats real any time. At least until we get the whole teleportation thing nailed down.

A benefit no one has mentioned, afternoon delights with the wife.

Or with Mr. Right