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Information operations directed at Hong Kong

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Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#381

Post by 0xdeadb00f »

Leary wrote: post #250
adammenges wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn’t make sense. The slaving government in ancient Egypt was supported for a long time. Just because a form of government exists doesn’t mean it isn’t abusive to some of it’s people or to other countries.

Just because a government is abusive to some of its people doesn't mean it has no value. Just look at the US

The US is in an awful state. But they don't treat their own people as bad as China has.

Is there an equivalent instance of the Tiananmen Square massacre in the US? (I'm asking, I don't know).

The US has their fair share of issues but freedom to speak against the government has always been a big thing.

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#382

Post by rqs »

jackvalentine wrote: post #272
rqs wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My current account was not created to post political dumps, but the atmosphere is changed upside down so much, it's really hard to just walk around it while still keep a peace of mind. Can I ask for an account deletion and removal of all posted content? Thanks!

> Can I ask for an account deletion and removal of all posted content? Thanks! I asked for that once and was refused with the reasoning: > I’m sorry to disappoint, but Hacker News doesn’t delete entire accounts because that would gut the threads it participated in. We do sometimes remove specific comments if users are worried they’ll get in trouble, and we’re also working on the ability to rename accounts. Would eith…

Thank you for your info.

Well, then they can remove comments that doesn't receive any reply. Do they?

If the least thing they could do is renaming, then please rename my account to `chairmanmao`, so it won't contain my name anymore. I will ditch this account after everything is done.

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#383

Post by powerapple »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #379
powerapple wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly only comment on China related articles, with a pro-China view. Sometimes I find it necessary to comment because it is rare to see pro-China comment here. I am definitely not state-sponsored, I might be brainwashed in your opinion, but definitely not getting paid for those comments, and those comments are from the bottom of my heart :) I don't really like to read political posts on Hacker News, I am mostly in…

I have a question from you. How, as a pro-China person, do you view the Dalai Lama? Because I see a certain inconsistency that nobody can explain to me: the DL insists he doesn't care about the complete autonomy or independence [0] of Tibet, just faving a bit more freedom so that people can practice their religion and cultivate their culture. This, in my opinion, is a moderate view, and in no way a threat to the inte…

I don't care so much about Dalai Lama to be honest. I think religion has its place, but shouldn't be the center of stage. In my view, if you don't allow kids to vote before 18, why pushing religious view to them when they are young? I think that's more important to a person than political views. On personal level, I find religion is fundamentally exclusive (where you believe something is the ultimate truth), I think it shouldn't reform and develop with society and should eventually disappear. New religion should come out and replace old ones. Now religion is just trying to modernize and it shows it doesn't hold the ultimate truth, only want to win as many people as possible, like a pop band

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#384

Post by yorwba »

dang wrote: post #380
wannaduo wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually，I work for one of the most well known Chinese Internet companies. Our company’s VPN is blocked by HN

HN doesn't block VPNs. What are you observing that leads you to say that?

Don't you ban IP addresses in some cases? https://hn.algolia.com/?query=by:dang%20IP%20banned&sort=byD... suggests you do. That could result in effectively banning a VPN.

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#385

Post by ryacko »

tmux314 wrote: post #42

Good on Twitter and Facebook. On top of blocking thousands of websites (which includes Facebook, Google, Twitter) China's government employs thousands of government employees just to purge even the most mild criticism of the CCP on Weibo [1]. They also employ tens of thousands to export their propaganda overseas, using sock puppet accounts to push their worldview[2]. And their worldview is fiercely anti-democratic. T…

US-based social media companies publish more methodology about how they remove Chinese accounts as opposed to how they remove American accounts. It becomes even more absurd considering that Twitter’s Trust and Safety Council contains no civil libertarians or anything resembling balanced interests.

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#386

Post by jen20 »

jackvalentine wrote: post #272
rqs wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My current account was not created to post political dumps, but the atmosphere is changed upside down so much, it's really hard to just walk around it while still keep a peace of mind. Can I ask for an account deletion and removal of all posted content? Thanks!

> Can I ask for an account deletion and removal of all posted content? Thanks! I asked for that once and was refused with the reasoning: > I’m sorry to disappoint, but Hacker News doesn’t delete entire accounts because that would gut the threads it participated in. We do sometimes remove specific comments if users are worried they’ll get in trouble, and we’re also working on the ability to rename accounts. Would eith…

If you are European, this seems fundamentally incompatible with the requirements of the GDPR, unless they have a better basis for processing than consent (which I doubt for a site like Hacker News).

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#387

Post by rtpg »

khawkins wrote: post #136
tmux314 wrote: post #42

Good on Twitter and Facebook. On top of blocking thousands of websites (which includes Facebook, Google, Twitter) China's government employs thousands of government employees just to purge even the most mild criticism of the CCP on Weibo [1]. They also employ tens of thousands to export their propaganda overseas, using sock puppet accounts to push their worldview[2]. And their worldview is fiercely anti-democratic. T…

>The Internet cannot remain free if we allow governments to use their power to control narratives and suppress the truth. I wish more people applied this same line of reasoning towards the US-based social media companies themselves. If we hold true that Twitter's influence is so powerful that world superpowers are gaming it effectively to control narratives, then why aren't people more outraged at the near constant c…

> why aren't people more outraged at the near constant censoring of alternative voices in the West?

This is making a false assumption that the "censorship" is because of being different instead of those people not following super strict terms of service like "please don't use our service to start mass harassment campaigns of other people" or "don't advocate for genocide".

Hell, the constant complaining about twitter ("the hell site") on its own platform is proof of something.

You're saying "X happened to person with characteristic Y here, and people are cheering, therefore it's because of Y". That's rarely what's going on.

Most people are fine with China Daily being on Twitter in principle, just like Voice of America has an account despite it being basically American propaganda targeted abroad. The problem came in the specific actions being taken by these people.

Perhaps some ideologies lead to behavior that get them in trouble

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#388

Post by rjf72 »

laughinghan wrote: post #172
rjf72 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try to not take sides, but rather to simply evaluate evidence. As the evidence shifts in one direction or another, so do my views. To see why judging issues by the groups involved instead of evidence, one doesn't need to go back far. The Iraq war ended up costing hundreds of thousands of innocent lives, trillions of dollars, and helped accelerate a rapid destabilization of the entire Mideast setting the stage of th…

The mainstream media were all, in orchestrated unison, arguing loudly for the war. This is plainly false. The New York Times featured e.g. then-Senator John Kerry arguing against war in Iraq: https://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/06/opinion/we-still-have-a-c... They also had e.g. news pieces about the UN chief chemical and biological weapons inspector contradicting the US government's claims of WMDs: https://www.nytimes.co…

The orchestrated unison happened after Polin Cowell gave his presentation for war at the UN. As the phenomenal article from USA Today you referenced mentions, his case was hardly compelling and full of aspersions with no unquestionable evidence (which is largely because as in hindsight we can now realize - such evidence did not exist), but that didn't stop the usual suspects of the New York Times, Washington Post, etc from not only unquestionably parroting it, but actively working to try to persuade people to support the war. That is why I do not think it hyperbolic to refer to what they engaged in as propaganda.

In checking out USA Today their coverage of Hong Kong [1] today also seems remarkably level-headed in contrast again to the New York Times, Washington Post, et al - which are presenting the situation in a sensationalized and single-sided fashion. Unfortunately more tempered coverage seems to gain little to no traction, then and now.

[1] - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/07/02/hong-ko...

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#389

Post by qtplatypus »

echevil wrote: post #323
dang wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell, that is only a small minority of the commenters with such views. Far more are people in Western countries who have personal, familial, educational, or work ties to China, or who had experiences in China that gave them a different perspective. In a way, though, we're talking about the same thing, because most of this follows from human loyalties—to family, tribe, country, etc.—that all of us have…

Just to share some perspective as a native Chinese living in US for anyone interested: - Most of immigrants from China after 2000 holds pro-China views, and there's strong tendency to become more pro-China after living in US for some time, after having full exposure to US media and getting to know how things really work in US. - It's probably common to see HN accounts that comment mostly on China related issues. I do…

What is it about exposure to the US that will make someone more pro the Chinese government?

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#390

Post by liuliu »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #379
powerapple wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly only comment on China related articles, with a pro-China view. Sometimes I find it necessary to comment because it is rare to see pro-China comment here. I am definitely not state-sponsored, I might be brainwashed in your opinion, but definitely not getting paid for those comments, and those comments are from the bottom of my heart :) I don't really like to read political posts on Hacker News, I am mostly in…

I have a question from you. How, as a pro-China person, do you view the Dalai Lama? Because I see a certain inconsistency that nobody can explain to me: the DL insists he doesn't care about the complete autonomy or independence [0] of Tibet, just faving a bit more freedom so that people can practice their religion and cultivate their culture. This, in my opinion, is a moderate view, and in no way a threat to the inte…

HHDL has a long and complicated life. His idealogy cannot be simplified to "seeking peace and religious freedom".

Tibet was a slavery society under his ruling 70 years ago, unfortunately. People do change, but there are certain historical bagagges cannot be nullified.

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