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Information operations directed at Hong Kong

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Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#231

Post by wtdata »

dang wrote: post #160
woah wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even here on Hacker News, a week or so ago I saw someone being chided for “breaking the HN guidelines” by calling out a sock puppet. When I looked at the comment history of the account doing the chiding, all of its comments were on China related articles, taking a pro-China view.

There are two site guidelines that apply to this. First, it's not ok to use HN primarily for political, ideological, or national battle. If a commenter is posting as you describe, we ask them to stop. Example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20727426 . But by no means does it follow that a commenter behaving that way must be a sockpuppet, astroturfer, shill, spy, foreign agent, etc. That's where the second guide…

Sincerely, I got an admonition and flag from you for calling out 2 different recent accounts, created at the same time, with very similar names that all they did was to defend China's autocratic government.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20725773

Although I can understand the admonition (for using the wrong medium to call out those accounts), I simply can't understand how those 2 accounts are still active, given their obvious purpose that goes againt HN guidelines in a more serious way.

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#232

Post by throwaway-43958 »

ryanchankh wrote: post #22

HongKonger here. I have some friends in China posting similar anti-protest posts on WeChat social media. It's like the news they read has a completely different story than what it's being told in legitimate new sources. The problem of fake news does become very apparent, and I hope people in China can eventually gain awareness or at least start to question the validity of their news sources.

I have a Chinese friend who went to an Ivy League University, married an American, and currently works for a FAANG company and lives in the Bay Area. Yet they publicly support the PRC Government on Facebook and vehemently attack anyone who express support of Hong Kongers.

People believe in what they choose to believe.

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#233

Post by poyu »

throwaway-43958 wrote: post #232
ryanchankh wrote: post #22

HongKonger here. I have some friends in China posting similar anti-protest posts on WeChat social media. It's like the news they read has a completely different story than what it's being told in legitimate new sources. The problem of fake news does become very apparent, and I hope people in China can eventually gain awareness or at least start to question the validity of their news sources.

I have a Chinese friend who went to an Ivy League University, married an American, and currently works for a FAANG company and lives in the Bay Area. Yet they publicly support the PRC Government on Facebook and vehemently attack anyone who express support of Hong Kongers. People believe in what they choose to believe.

That’s the power of totalitarian!

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#234

Post by Solvitieg »

khawkins wrote: post #136
tmux314 wrote: post #42

Good on Twitter and Facebook. On top of blocking thousands of websites (which includes Facebook, Google, Twitter) China's government employs thousands of government employees just to purge even the most mild criticism of the CCP on Weibo [1]. They also employ tens of thousands to export their propaganda overseas, using sock puppet accounts to push their worldview[2]. And their worldview is fiercely anti-democratic. T…

>The Internet cannot remain free if we allow governments to use their power to control narratives and suppress the truth. I wish more people applied this same line of reasoning towards the US-based social media companies themselves. If we hold true that Twitter's influence is so powerful that world superpowers are gaming it effectively to control narratives, then why aren't people more outraged at the near constant c…

The hive mind refuses to engage with hard-hitting analysis like this. Hence the down votes and no responses.

Outside of this scope, what is concerning me is that you can't hold a pro-china position. Look at the other comments here.

> I have some friends in China posting similar anti-protest posts on WeChat social media. It's like the news they read has a completely different story than what it's being told in legitimate new sources.

Holding a pro-china position apparently means you're reading fake news or part of a misinformation campaign.

The news we read is CORRECT, the news you read is WRONG.

We have the same problem here in the West. If you go against the church of progressivem you're a Russianbot.

Twitter needs to not get involved. It's election meddling, even if they take the "pro-democratic" side.

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#236

Post by mythrwy »

interpenetrate wrote: post #200
AnthonyWnC wrote: post #129

Let me guess, all pro-China tweeks are blocked but anti-China are not blocked. Keep toeing the party line Twitter.

you gotta love the language: "coordinated state-backed operations" are banned. such careful language. what does that make USAID, who is undoubtedly responsible for shaping this discourse? perhaps an "uncoordinated" state-backed operation? and what does that make twitter? it's not enough to call everyone here "dumb" or "sheeps," because all of the middle-class americans on this wretched forum are specifically acting i…

I'd be surprised if many or any posters on this forum want to "topple China".

Probably more just believe the current government of China should behave differently.

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#237

Post by ospider »

ryanchankh wrote: post #22

HongKonger here. I have some friends in China posting similar anti-protest posts on WeChat social media. It's like the news they read has a completely different story than what it's being told in legitimate new sources. The problem of fake news does become very apparent, and I hope people in China can eventually gain awareness or at least start to question the validity of their news sources.

Native Chinese here. Hacker news have been a great place to learn new things to me for 5 years. But the political views on Hacker news are somewhat naive to me. It seems that the Chinese Government is always evil and wrong, but why haven't the government collapsed after so many years if there were no people supporting them?

People in China, at least those millions people who are able to cross the Great Firewall, know that democracy is generally good, but they also know that a strong central government can also be useful for certain circumstances. Most westerners and HongKongers on Hacker news have a very extreme political view, you just believe "democracy is good"(TM), protesting against the evil Chinese government is good. But can you take a closer look at what is really happening in HK and then decide what you believe?

BTW, I'm neither pro-protester nor pro-police, I think the protest is a result of economic regression in HK. You could also check my comment and posting history to see that I'm not a 五毛党.

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#238

Post by randomgoog »

wtdata wrote: post #231
dang wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two site guidelines that apply to this. First, it's not ok to use HN primarily for political, ideological, or national battle. If a commenter is posting as you describe, we ask them to stop. Example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20727426 . But by no means does it follow that a commenter behaving that way must be a sockpuppet, astroturfer, shill, spy, foreign agent, etc. That's where the second guide…

Sincerely, I got an admonition and flag from you for calling out 2 different recent accounts, created at the same time, with very similar names that all they did was to defend China's autocratic government. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20725773 Although I can understand the admonition (for using the wrong medium to call out those accounts), I simply can't understand how those 2 accounts are still active, give…

Follow the money. When people’s actions don’t make sense, follow the money.

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#239

Post by chrischen »

ospider wrote: post #237
ryanchankh wrote: post #22

HongKonger here. I have some friends in China posting similar anti-protest posts on WeChat social media. It's like the news they read has a completely different story than what it's being told in legitimate new sources. The problem of fake news does become very apparent, and I hope people in China can eventually gain awareness or at least start to question the validity of their news sources.

Native Chinese here. Hacker news have been a great place to learn new things to me for 5 years. But the political views on Hacker news are somewhat naive to me. It seems that the Chinese Government is always evil and wrong, but why haven't the government collapsed after so many years if there were no people supporting them? People in China, at least those millions people who are able to cross the Great Firewall, know…

I'm generally anti-Communist party of China, but mostly because I believe their bureaucracy is completely inept. But I have to agree with you, the vast majority of Western-based HN commenters are politically naïve, as if they just stepped out of a high school US government class. The reason is that US education, while it acknowledges the flaws of democracy, also proclaims that it is the only acceptable form of government.

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#240

Post by chrischen »

guerrilla wrote: post #98
brightball wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not from the government, we call it marketing. :-)

This is incorrect. Marketing is not necessarily used to promote political change. There are plenty of examples of propaganda in for-proft and non-profit (yet non-state) media which is clearly propaganda and not marketing simultaneously.

Tell that to the political facebook ad companies.
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