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Information operations directed at Hong Kong

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Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#141

Post by prewett »

derefr wrote: post #119
xt00 wrote: post #32

Was in China when the first protest happened and the news coverage was mostly saying things like that the people are clueless in Hong Kong and don’t understand the law about extradition. They had various experts all saying similar things and they would also point to random weibo posts about totally not on the payroll “people” saying they want their city back from the protesters.. I mean it’s one thing if China’S cent…

> but dressing it up as “lots of ordinary folks agree with them” is pretty disingenuous I wouldn't say it's disingenuous... given that there's nothing legally preventing mainland-Chinese from choosing to live in HK, and then being quoted as people who want "their" city back. Odd to think, but HK is now experiencing a real Red Scare , the likes of which the US only ever imagined in the depths of paranoid delusion. The…

I believe that mainland people have to apply for a special permit to even cross the border into HK. I would expect it to be even harder to live there as a mainlander. So while they may be posing as HK residents on Twitter, I don't think they are in reality.

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#142

Post by ropiwqefjnpoa »

khawkins wrote: post #136
tmux314 wrote: post #42

Good on Twitter and Facebook. On top of blocking thousands of websites (which includes Facebook, Google, Twitter) China's government employs thousands of government employees just to purge even the most mild criticism of the CCP on Weibo [1]. They also employ tens of thousands to export their propaganda overseas, using sock puppet accounts to push their worldview[2]. And their worldview is fiercely anti-democratic. T…

>The Internet cannot remain free if we allow governments to use their power to control narratives and suppress the truth. I wish more people applied this same line of reasoning towards the US-based social media companies themselves. If we hold true that Twitter's influence is so powerful that world superpowers are gaming it effectively to control narratives, then why aren't people more outraged at the near constant c…

Agreed. Would Twitter take the same stand against a regime whose policies it agreed with?

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#143

Post by dionian »

guerrilla wrote: post #77
kevin_b_er wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the fake news is generated and controlled by a government entity, I think the better term is "propaganda".

It seems unreasonable to restrict the term propaganda to government since any organization can produce propaganda, i.e. "information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view."

Also wrong to call only negative things propaganda

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#144

Post by prewett »

ktln2 wrote: post #31

China has been doing this for a while, not only on social media, but traditional media / institutions too. It's about time to get serious about this problem. https://www.hoover.org/news/china-exerting-sharp-power-influ...

It's inherent in all communist states (that have existed). There is a document called "Chapter NN", where NN is some number, I think in the teens, from eastern Europe that describes the dynamic. Unfortunately I have no idea how to search for it, so if someone could post a link I'd be grateful. If I recall correctly, the problem is that the State claims to represent the people, but in fact it does not represent the people. Thus, it must lie in everything it says, otherwise it could not claim to represent the people.

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#146

Post by incompatible »

revel wrote: post #99
tmux314 wrote: post #42

Good on Twitter and Facebook. On top of blocking thousands of websites (which includes Facebook, Google, Twitter) China's government employs thousands of government employees just to purge even the most mild criticism of the CCP on Weibo [1]. They also employ tens of thousands to export their propaganda overseas, using sock puppet accounts to push their worldview[2]. And their worldview is fiercely anti-democratic. T…

The internet is already not free for much of the world. It's depressing to type this but China successfully created a parallel version of the internet that is anything but free. That model got exported and now you see the same approach being taken across the world. The direction we seem to be heading in is one where the world's collective internet systems are effectively Balkanized.

As the article says, "Twitter is blocked in PRC". Probably an own-goal in situations like this, since the army of Chinese-government loyalists can't be fully unleashed upon the world. The people of China generally seem pretty loyal to its government, but I'm unsure how much that is due to constant monitoring and systems like "social credit".

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#147

Post by NicoJuicy »

ryanchankh wrote: post #22

HongKonger here. I have some friends in China posting similar anti-protest posts on WeChat social media. It's like the news they read has a completely different story than what it's being told in legitimate new sources. The problem of fake news does become very apparent, and I hope people in China can eventually gain awareness or at least start to question the validity of their news sources.

I think those that don't agree, just don't post it. Being scared of the state and their score.

Not sure though.

But since 996, I think most of them are pretty aware what is happening abroad ( sometimes)

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#148

Post by avip »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #134
avip wrote: post #95

My YT overlord lately decided I should watch Jackie Chan commentates about the situation in Hong-Kong [0]. I was very surprised to see the English comments almost unanimously support China. Would have expected the opposite sentiment. [edit: stupid me, the uploader is CGTN, a well-known state propoganda channel] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7rIg49I0yI

Jackie Chan is entitled to his opinions. During those protests there have been rioting and ransacking of the local Parliament with some expressing views that HK was not, or should not be, China. This can genuinely trigger feelings of patriotism and outrage. The lastest protest seems to have been peaceful and to have respected the authorities' restrictions as much as possible so it may be that they have understood tha…

I did not say anything about his opinion, I was referring to the comments, which for a platform that should be blocked in China, are surprisingly pro-China.

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#149

Post by _ptgt »

AnthonyWnC wrote: post #133

The Western media basically surpassed any news of violence in the protests, barely mention any anti-protest rally in Hong Kong. What a surprise then that you have bunch of ignorant people who eat this up like a bunch of sheep.

This isn't true at all, at least in the sources I was reading (NYT, WSJ). Entire paragraphs were devoted to protester violence in nearly every article. This weekend's protest was even described as peaceful in contrast to the previous weeks' protest.

Re: Information operations directed at Hong Kong

#150

Post by echelon »

ryanchankh wrote: post #22

HongKonger here. I have some friends in China posting similar anti-protest posts on WeChat social media. It's like the news they read has a completely different story than what it's being told in legitimate new sources. The problem of fake news does become very apparent, and I hope people in China can eventually gain awareness or at least start to question the validity of their news sources.

It's been awhile since I've been over there. How easy is it for those in mainland China to get access to banned tv shows and films? I remember lots of DVD content being sold on the street, but I never came across anything that was in direct opposition to the politics of the regime.

What if Netflix (or some other production company) produced a compelling show with an incredibly critical narrative about the PRC and its leadership? Would citizens in mainland China be able to access it through roundabout means? Would you be able to sow the seeds of democracy? Would they even be interested?

The last time I was on campus in Shanghai and Beijing, half of those I spoke to were critical of the party and did not believe China would catch up to the West. The other half were total ideological zealots and made me know that my government was inferior.

Given my vantage point, I believe the citizenry is at a precipice, but there is no inciting moment to tip the scale. Life in China is comfortable for the burgeoning middle class, and nobody would want to rock that boat.

In any case, I think an unfettered political drama about the PRC would be fascinating to watch.

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