Live data from Hacker News

Wireless Carrier Throttling of Online Video Is Pervasive: Study

bloomberg.com

91–100 of 176 posts

Re: Wireless Carrier Throttling of Online Video Is Pervasive: Study

#91
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, and in Comcast's case, when Netflix finally paid Comcast's ransom, the problem was suddenly fixed a few minutes later, because Comcast literally just had to reconfigure the router and plug in a second cable.

In those days it was typical for the costs of peering to be borne by the sender, relative to the traffic ratio. This changed when Netflix and Youtube decided to use their PR and lobbying strength to bring the negotiation to the court of public opinion - and normal people started referring to typical peering cost-sharing agreements using emotionally loaded words like "ransom"

Peering ratio requirements are kind of a scapegoat. Especially in the case of an 'eyeball' network like Comcast. I have 250Mb down, and 10mb up. (I would love 50Mb up, I push a ton of docker images daily). Their circuits they sell their clients will only re-enforce those ratios.. (then again, if netflix was to partner with a bunch of backup providers, like Mozy, crashplan, backblaze, etc, to carry their backup traffic, that could get VERY interesting)

[0] https://drpeering.net/white-papers/The-Folly-Of-Peering-Rati...

Re: Wireless Carrier Throttling of Online Video Is Pervasive: Study

#92
post #11

I’m reminded of a comment I read a few days ago from someone that has their own small isp that said bandwidth was basically an inconsequential cost for them. Throttling like this is penny pinching of the highest order. How do we get the benefits of competition if every company is doing it?

Shannon-Hartley is a harsh mistress. There is only so much wireless capacity especially when you have a bunch of phones close to each other.

> when you have a bunch of phones close to each other

Even when you don't apparenly...

Re: Wireless Carrier Throttling of Online Video Is Pervasive: Study

#93
post #83

For both wired and wireless, it's time for legislation to address exactly what it and isn't permitted with regard to advertised speeds, throttling, and total usage -- both with respect to users, and with respect to peering. It's not just an issue of policy, but one of transparency too. It's a fact of life that more people will want to consume data than a network can support. So where are we going to make the cut? Dim…

It's a fact of life that more people will want to consume data than a network can support. Is this actually true or is it just a matter of the isp not building the needed infrastructure required? Because if it is just an infrastructure issue then I would question why they choose to not expand to a better service. Is it because they can get away with providing crappy service as many people only have a single choice of…

It's a matter of economics.

An ISP could build the required infrastructure to support everyone's peak desired simultaneous usage... but then they'd probably have to quadruple (or worse) what people are paying for it just to break even, which the market wouldn't support, so they'd go out of business.

The same way restaurants could invest in enough space to handle all demand for Friday nights and Valentine's Day... but would go out of business because they couldn't keep it full enough to pay the rent the rest of the week/year.

Re: Wireless Carrier Throttling of Online Video Is Pervasive: Study

#94
post #55

Congestion is a real thing for LTE networks, so you have to throttle. There's only so much bandwidth over a shared medium.

I really, really hate to defend mobile carriers, but... Congestion is a real thing. Mobile subscribers are now using significantly more data due to video streaming, and wireless carriers aren't expanding their capacity fast enough. 5G won't help for most of CONUS. Millimeter wave 5G, which will help, will only be deployed in urban areas. Mid-band and low-band 5G will only increase spectrum efficiency around 20%. For…

Sure, congestion is a thing, but:

- I feel like there should be some oversight or required transparency about how and when they're applying throttling. Can they throttle customers in under served markets all the time to save money? - They're currently throttling sites not protocols or users. Why? Did some sites pay them off? If they need to throttle they should be applying that process equally among sites. "But AT&T didn't slow Amazon.com's Prime Video at all" - I would be curious to see where bandwidth problems play out in terms of "carrier could build more towers, but hasn't" and "we've reached the actual peak of what's possible with current technology.

Re: Wireless Carrier Throttling of Online Video Is Pervasive: Study

#95
post #83

For both wired and wireless, it's time for legislation to address exactly what it and isn't permitted with regard to advertised speeds, throttling, and total usage -- both with respect to users, and with respect to peering. It's not just an issue of policy, but one of transparency too. It's a fact of life that more people will want to consume data than a network can support. So where are we going to make the cut? Dim…

It's a fact of life that more people will want to consume data than a network can support. Is this actually true or is it just a matter of the isp not building the needed infrastructure required? Because if it is just an infrastructure issue then I would question why they choose to not expand to a better service. Is it because they can get away with providing crappy service as many people only have a single choice of…

Basic laws of supply and demand state that when you charge a fixed price and permit unlimited usage at that price, usage will approach infinity (that is, when the marginal price is zero). Everyone with a fixed price, unlimited usage plan has no incentive at all to restrain use. The wireless carriers cannot provide infinite service (the bandwidth simply doesn't exist).

Re: Wireless Carrier Throttling of Online Video Is Pervasive: Study

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where net neutrality fails. I'm all for not letting vertically integrated carriers give their own services an unfair advantage, but if throttling a high-bandwidth user to improve the service of nearby users? I'm more ok with that.

But thats not whats going on. This is throttling by content, not by user. All video content gets throttled so that the html5 video player negotiates a lower video resolution. t-mobile literally touts this as a feature. Net neutrality is the belief that isps should only be allowed to throttle by user, never by content, all data should be equal.

Not only that, but they advertise that they are giving you "10 GB of data at LTE speed" and that's not what you get.

Re: Wireless Carrier Throttling of Online Video Is Pervasive: Study

#97
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out https://fast.com from Netflix. It's a speed test based off of Netflix's servers, so it will tell you your bandwidth to Netflix at any given time. Then complain to your ISP if that doesn't match your advertised speed.

Just ran it and I'm getting 44 Mbps. AFAIK, that's plenty of bandwidth from Netflix's perspective, so would complaining to my ISP make any sense? Should I be getting 300 Mbps with Netflix?

Are you paying for 300 Mbps?

Re: Wireless Carrier Throttling of Online Video Is Pervasive: Study

#98
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now, please explain why, in the case of contention, the user using video should get less than their fair share of the available capacity?

Because in case of congestion the user watching video is abusing the system. It's like going to a congested public road with a convoy of lorries just because you can. Really, don't be a dick.

Using the amount of data you paid for is being a dick? 10 GB per month is paltry amount of data.

Re: Wireless Carrier Throttling of Online Video Is Pervasive: Study

#99
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It surprises me that most people in the US wouldn't have at least one cable and one DSL option. After all, cable TV is available most places, and everyone has a phone line (or is at least wired for one). Or is the issue rural locations which were never wired for cable because they all just got satellite dishes?

I live 3 miles from downtown Austin, which has numerous internet options (Google Fiber, Spectrum, AT&T, and Grande), but the options in my apartment complex are: * Spectrum (up to 400mbps) * AT&T (5mbps dsl) I technically do have some choice, but given that one of these is close to 100x faster than the other, and the pricing is fairly similar... I think wireless isps and 5g are our best chance at disrupting this.

> at disrupting this.

Or, you know, democratic policy changes a majority of us all agree are sensible.

Re: Wireless Carrier Throttling of Online Video Is Pervasive: Study

#100
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live 3 miles from downtown Austin, which has numerous internet options (Google Fiber, Spectrum, AT&T, and Grande), but the options in my apartment complex are: * Spectrum (up to 400mbps) * AT&T (5mbps dsl) I technically do have some choice, but given that one of these is close to 100x faster than the other, and the pricing is fairly similar... I think wireless isps and 5g are our best chance at disrupting this.

Even that spectrum connection is garbage because the upload will only be 2 or 3 mbps, barely enough for one FaceTime call. Anything short of symmetric fiber is a sham in this day and age.

At least in my area Spectrum/TWC service has 400 mbps down and 20 mbps up. Still not great but far better than the old days.
Post reply on HN