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Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance
161–170 of 222 posts
Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance
#162Terrible article: 1) It's only about the US. 2) Tesla's big seller is the Model 3 which isn't a competitor for the Audi e-tron and I-Pace. And given the size difference probably isn't a competitor for the Model X either. 3) No one is claiming to be a Tesla killer since no one really has direct 3, X, S, Y competitors. The existing car companies are all off doing their own thing e.g. VW ID.3 (hatchback), Hyundai Kona (…
When Tesla's competitors stop designing and electric car and start designing a really great car that just happens to be electric then Tesla will have competition. Until then all the supposed Tesla competitors will be a joke. For example it was recently reported that the Jaguar I-pace requires that you drive 17 MPH with the climate control off to achieve the manufacture specified range per charge. [0] They have 6 mont…
Tesla seems to have the advantage that investors are willing to supply it with endless amounts of cash to fuel it's unprofitable operations year after year. In its 16 year history, it has never turned an annual profit. It has lost billions and billions of dollars. Tesla just received another $2 billion lifeline infusion earlier this year.
Other automakers have to play by more sane financial rules.
Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance
#163According to the article, they have less range than a Tesla Model 3 and cost substantially more. That seems like a hard thing to sell.
They aren't competitors for the Model 3 but rather a Model Y. And not sure why people are so obsessed with range. It's the megapixels/megahertz spec nonsense again. People don't buy ICE cars based purely on MPG but also for exterior/interior design, quality, comfort, brand, support, seating capacity etc and most importantly what the car says about you as a person.
My first EV was an 80 mile Leaf. Now I have a 300 mile Model 3 that I take regular road trips in. To be quite honest, with the range hit in cold weather, (I take the car skiing,) 300 miles per charge just isn't enough.
EVs need about 400-500 miles range in order to have mass adoption. Anything less is delusional.
Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Germany has traditionally been a station wagon country. Although SUVs are everywhere now, you still see more station wagons. As I see it, SUVs are used as a status symbol and they have the advantage of an elevated driving position. Station wagons are generally used by people who "do stuff", who have to transport things or drive long distances. It it the car of the practical thinkers. Station wagons are also driven by…
One could make a mix between station wagon and suv. All it requires is height adjustable dampers. Elevation is a classic status symbol think castle locations. Upper class started driving elevated cars SUVs and middle class want to move up in status.
That's the Toyota Venza. Technically a wagon, very much lifted.
Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
When Tesla's competitors stop designing and electric car and start designing a really great car that just happens to be electric then Tesla will have competition. Until then all the supposed Tesla competitors will be a joke. For example it was recently reported that the Jaguar I-pace requires that you drive 17 MPH with the climate control off to achieve the manufacture specified range per charge. [0] They have 6 mont…
Tesla seems to have the advantage that investors are willing to supply it with endless amounts of cash to fuel it's unprofitable operations year after year. In its 16 year history, it has never turned an annual profit. It has lost billions and billions of dollars. Tesla just received another $2 billion lifeline infusion earlier this year. Other automakers have to play by more sane financial rules.
That's exactly what the same people also said about Amazon.
Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
When Tesla's competitors stop designing and electric car and start designing a really great car that just happens to be electric then Tesla will have competition. Until then all the supposed Tesla competitors will be a joke. For example it was recently reported that the Jaguar I-pace requires that you drive 17 MPH with the climate control off to achieve the manufacture specified range per charge. [0] They have 6 mont…
> When Tesla's competitors stop designing and electric car and start designing a really great car that just happens to be electric then Tesla will have competition. Until then all the supposed Tesla competitors will be a joke. This. I never understood why car manufacturers all make such weird wacky electric cars. When the Model S came out it was such a relief that finally there was a _normal_ looking electric car. Wh…
I had the 2013 then the 2015 Nissan Leaf. At least from the outside it meets the "Weird whacky" criteria. If you look at the 2019 Nissan Leaf, it looks very conventional.
It turns out there's a very good reason to do that: these early models appeal to early adopters. The range kinda sucked. And yet I was happy to be an early adopter because of my nerdiness—and the financial incentives made it hard to refuse. But it definitely required planing insofar as range was concerned. At the same time, knowing that I'm putting up with these inconveniences for benefit of having some new early tech that few others have... that was worth it to me. It was also worth it to some of my friends but definitely not to most of them, who wanted first and foremost a car that didn't come with a peculiar usage pattern.
Now the 2019 Nissan Leaf has twice the range as those older models, it looks "normal", doesn't require much forethought in terms of destination distances, and is marketed to a broader audience. At the same time, the tax incentives have almost all disappeared (the $5k Georgia one is gone) and that is the normal course of action because these cars don't carry the inconvenience that they used to.
Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
My BMW i3 has an 8 year 80% battery warranty. Tesla does very well with their battery management. Leaf is not so great, but far from 50% at 5 years unless you mistreat it AFAIK. Yes, winter will reduce range. I had a worst-case trip this year, it was around -18 C outside and I had not had a chance to pre-heat the batteries. Car was 99% charged, showing 200 km range initially. After some 135 km the car showed about 10…
Thank you for writing that up. It is useful to consider a real-world scenario from an existing EV owner that has some real data. > Leaf is not so great, but far from 50% at 5 years unless you mistreat it AFAIK. I got to 50% by combining reduced range from an old battery with reduced range from winter use. > about 63% So 80% (your battery warranty minimum) of 63% is 50.4%, so was my 50% guess spot on then, or have I m…
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Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance
#168That's an interesting interpretation of the data. To me, it looks like Model S/X sales have noticeably dropped since the introduction of the Jaguar and Audi. I don't think there will be a singular Tesla killer, but rather, Tesla is increasingly going to be attacked by all sides: Hyundai/Nissan/GM on the mass market side, Jaguar/Audi/Mercedes/BMW on the luxury side, and Porsche on the ultra luxury high end. The Model…
> That’s sorta Honda/Toyota territory. A kid in my office said the same thing and I have no idea where people are getting this from. A brand new Model 3 costs about as much as an Audi A4, BMW 3-Series, or Mercedes-Benz C-Class. The Model 3 is a compact executive car, and competes directly in that category. It is for the mass affluent. Not the mass market.
If we're talking about the price, you're right.
But if we're talking about actually sitting in the car, Tesla is definitely in Honda/Toyota territory.
Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a potential EV buyer, what concerns me is that a quoted 200 mile range sounds more like a 100 mile range after five years (so an older battery) in winter (when I'll want heating). That would limit me to driving only 50 miles from my home without having to alter my plans around charging, and I would want to add some contingency so perhaps that'd end up being 30 miles in practice. Feel free to tell me that I'm being…
My BMW i3 has an 8 year 80% battery warranty. Tesla does very well with their battery management. Leaf is not so great, but far from 50% at 5 years unless you mistreat it AFAIK. Yes, winter will reduce range. I had a worst-case trip this year, it was around -18 C outside and I had not had a chance to pre-heat the batteries. Car was 99% charged, showing 200 km range initially. After some 135 km the car showed about 10…
I forgot to mention that it was a round-trip with an ~5 hour stop in the middle, which cooled the car down to well below freezing. So yea, really non-ideal, but these things happen so should be taken into account.
Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
When Tesla's competitors stop designing and electric car and start designing a really great car that just happens to be electric then Tesla will have competition. Until then all the supposed Tesla competitors will be a joke. BMW electric Mini is due to go on the market in spring 2020 - they’re manufacturing them now in Oxford. I guess that counts as a 'real electric car'. Whether it’s a great one remains to be seen.…
The EPA range of the electric mini is 114 miles, the Model 3LR is 310 miles. Make sure you use the same measurement standard when comparing vehicles: the WLTP standard massively overstates range.
The Long Range version of the Model 3 is almost twice the price of the electric Mini, so I'm not sure those are really comparable.