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Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

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Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#131

Post by bryanlarsen »

rjdagost wrote: post #112
icelancer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes those companies will solve the energy storage issue in a reasonable amount of time. I wouldn't be so sure of that. Tesla does a lot of shit wrong, but Musk is ahead of people RE: batteries and energy storage importance. I am reminded of Bezos saying that their headstart in AWS with no viable competitor for years and years on end is what catapulted Amazon to what it is today. Tesla has a shot of making th…

Serious question- what is Tesla's technological advantage with batteries? I always hear people say that Tesla batteries are above and beyond all competitors, and then I read articles like this which make me doubt that claim: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-7364605/Tes...

1. A Tesla goes about 50% further per KwH than an e-tron.

2. Audi had to scale back 2019 production of etron due to battery apply supply issues. It calls into question Volkswagen group's ability to make millions of EVs in 2022 as planned if they can't make 50,000 etrons in 2019. https://www.electrive.com/2019/04/23/audi-revises-production...

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#132

Post by jaxn »

michaelt wrote: post #92
marvin wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re saying it’s comprable to 3 in size and features, but S&X in price? I really don’t intend to be snarky, but I haven’t seen it, and this would be the implication if what you say is correct.

Wikipedia calls the Model X, I-Pace and Model 3 "Mid-size luxury crossover SUV", "Compact luxury crossover SUV" and "Compact executive car" respectively. The I-Pace has 8% less length, 8% less height, and 12% less weight than the Model X 90D. The widths are comparable. The I-Pace has 9% more width, 9% more height, and 15% more weight than the Model 3 Range AWD. The lengths are comparable. I would say this puts the I-…

So the accurate comparison is the i-Pace and the Model Y. Jaguar beat Tesla to market by 12-18 months in the segment. Will be interesting to see if they can capitalize on the head start.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#133

Post by bryanlarsen »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #131
rjdagost wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question- what is Tesla's technological advantage with batteries? I always hear people say that Tesla batteries are above and beyond all competitors, and then I read articles like this which make me doubt that claim: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-7364605/Tes...

1. A Tesla goes about 50% further per KwH than an e-tron. 2. Audi had to scale back 2019 production of etron due to battery apply supply issues. It calls into question Volkswagen group's ability to make millions of EVs in 2022 as planned if they can't make 50,000 etrons in 2019. https://www.electrive.com/2019/04/23/audi-revises-production...

3. The table in the article you linked shows Tesla way ahead of everything else. Did you like the right article?

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#134

Post by grecy »

fgonzag wrote: post #29
pandapower2 wrote: post #2

Feels like anyone going head to head with Tesla is in for a hard time. It must be very hard to compete with the cachet of Tesla and the speed with which they improve their vehicles.

the porsche taycan seems like the ideal electric car honestly. If the price is not that ridiculous it'll probably be my first electric vehicle.

Yes, a product that does not currently exist is a good competitor for products you can buy today.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#135

Post by dsfyu404ed »

pmorici wrote: post #117
threeseed wrote: post #7

Terrible article: 1) It's only about the US. 2) Tesla's big seller is the Model 3 which isn't a competitor for the Audi e-tron and I-Pace. And given the size difference probably isn't a competitor for the Model X either. 3) No one is claiming to be a Tesla killer since no one really has direct 3, X, S, Y competitors. The existing car companies are all off doing their own thing e.g. VW ID.3 (hatchback), Hyundai Kona (…

When Tesla's competitors stop designing and electric car and start designing a really great car that just happens to be electric then Tesla will have competition. Until then all the supposed Tesla competitors will be a joke. For example it was recently reported that the Jaguar I-pace requires that you drive 17 MPH with the climate control off to achieve the manufacture specified range per charge. [0] They have 6 mont…

Except the Tesla isn't a "really great car".

The Model 3 is basically an upscale take on a page out of the FCA playbook. It's a straight line rocket with a middle of the road interior crowned by a massive touchscreen.

Don't get me wrong, there's definitively something to be said for that but Tesla does not make good all around vehicles.

Tesla make vehicles that excel at a few things and are mediocre in most other regards. If they were great all around vehicles upper class suburbanites would be buying them as general daily drivers instead of task specific cars (commuting in this case), a market segment currently filled by the station wagon/crossover/small suv spectrum. For reasons that are outside the scope of this comment, I think Tesla is wise to build sedans for upscale buyers rather than enter the crossover and compact car free-for all.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#137

Post by martin_bech »

ulfw wrote: post #100
martin_bech wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I myself was waiting for the Taycan, its looks stunning, and is very impressive, but on pure specs, its actually the same size as a Model 3 Performance, and a little slower... So I just ordered a Model 3 Performance. I currently drive a Model S.

How is that even remotely similar? Wow

The Model 3 Performance and the Taycan? They are about the same size, 0-100, top speed, range, charge rate etc etc.

I'll admit that the Taycan will be very nice looking, but it will also be about twice the price, if going for the same performance.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#138

Post by clouddrover »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #133
bryanlarsen wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. A Tesla goes about 50% further per KwH than an e-tron. 2. Audi had to scale back 2019 production of etron due to battery apply supply issues. It calls into question Volkswagen group's ability to make millions of EVs in 2022 as planned if they can't make 50,000 etrons in 2019. https://www.electrive.com/2019/04/23/audi-revises-production...

3. The table in the article you linked shows Tesla way ahead of everything else. Did you like the right article?

No, the Teslas are behind the Hyundais and the I-Pace in What Car?'s "Real Range" test cycle. Here's a better link:

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-7137701/Bes...

https://whatcar.com/news/what-car-real-range-which-electric-...

What Car? claims its test cycle is more realistic and more representative of actual range. The best Tesla finishes fourth. The Kia e-Niro is equal second with the Jaguar I-Pace and the Hyundai Kona is first.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#139

Post by kylecordes »

LeonM wrote: post #127
pmorici wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Tesla's competitors stop designing and electric car and start designing a really great car that just happens to be electric then Tesla will have competition. Until then all the supposed Tesla competitors will be a joke. For example it was recently reported that the Jaguar I-pace requires that you drive 17 MPH with the climate control off to achieve the manufacture specified range per charge. [0] They have 6 mont…

> When Tesla's competitors stop designing and electric car and start designing a really great car that just happens to be electric then Tesla will have competition. Until then all the supposed Tesla competitors will be a joke. This. I never understood why car manufacturers all make such weird wacky electric cars. When the Model S came out it was such a relief that finally there was a _normal_ looking electric car. Wh…

Tesla is trying to make cars to compete with other makers’ non-electric cars.

Other makers are trying to make cars to compete with Tesla, without competing with their own non-electric cars.

Currently, it is probably impossible to achieve a good profit margin on a mass-market electric car. Battery costs are too high this early in the manufacturing process. Tesla is willing to operate at the bare edge of fiscal viability while they scale… maybe even below viability. Other makers would have to take a gigantic drop in profit to compete with that.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#140

Post by ahartmetz »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #111
King-Aaron wrote: post #13

I wish consumers would take a liking to station wagons again. SUV's are terrible.

I used to think the same thing (I still do on principle, but...): The epitome of wanton American capitalism and excess. Every suburban family has one, whether they "need" it or not. Then I started paying a lot more attention to car crashes, in particular this one that happened recently ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNRxup0WhMo&feature=youtu.be , skip to 2:20 for the crash). A sedan utterly obliterated by a pickup…

Crashworthiness against a wall is almost independent of weight. Crash results against other cars are a function of weight, so yeah, you can crush the other guy instead. It's a very ugly arms race in that sense.
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