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Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

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Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#121

Post by marvin »

Traster wrote: post #113
icelancer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes those companies will solve the energy storage issue in a reasonable amount of time. I wouldn't be so sure of that. Tesla does a lot of shit wrong, but Musk is ahead of people RE: batteries and energy storage importance. I am reminded of Bezos saying that their headstart in AWS with no viable competitor for years and years on end is what catapulted Amazon to what it is today. Tesla has a shot of making th…

I don't understand how the batteries can be the competitive advantage when it's Panasonic producing the batteries.

Panasonic makes the battery cells. Tesla makes the battery packs, which is the product that counts in the end. This happens under the same roof. Tesla was also heavily involved in developing the battery cell chemistry and design.

AFAICT, the value of Tesla’s battery packs is that they’re cheaper, have better longevity and charge rate than the competition, and that this is due to the vertical integration of the whole design & manufacturing process. So, many small details slightly better than the competition, at lower cost. Also, Tesla’s drivetrain & pack integration is more efficient than competition due to many tiny improvements, leading to fewer kWh & hence dollars of cost per mile of range.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#122

Post by bryanlarsen »

rumanator wrote: post #27
gibolt wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every electric car slated to arrive has been called a Tesla killer in article after article, sometimes individually, often as a collective. Several of them are targeting Tesla owners with discounts, ads at superchargers, etc... The companies clearly think they are competing with Tesla, especially since they don't want to compete with themselves (ICE models). As for doing their own thing, most have a battery shortage…

> Every electric car slated to arrive has been called a Tesla killer in article after article, sometimes individually, often as a collective. The number of Nissan Leafs sold so far are close to twice the number of Tesla model Ss sold.

Which happened mostly before the release of the 3. Since then the 3 has dominated, despite being more expensive. The question isn't whether the Leaf is a Tesla killer, the question is whether the 3 is a Leaf killer.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#123

Post by magicalhippo »

threeseed wrote: post #10
MarkSweep wrote: post #6

According to the article, they have less range than a Tesla Model 3 and cost substantially more. That seems like a hard thing to sell.

They aren't competitors for the Model 3 but rather a Model Y. And not sure why people are so obsessed with range. It's the megapixels/megahertz spec nonsense again. People don't buy ICE cars based purely on MPG but also for exterior/interior design, quality, comfort, brand, support, seating capacity etc and most importantly what the car says about you as a person.

> And not sure why people are so obsessed with range.

Having recently bought an EV, range is one of the primary limitations of EVs and one of the parameters which varies greatly between manufacturers and models.

When you're out of juice you need to be near a charger, and you need to wait a fair bit to recharge compared to an ICE. So naturally you want to buy an EV which has sufficient range that you can do almost all of your driving without thinking about the range.

Tesla's getting into the "good enough" territory for most people but until most EVs are there, range will be one of the key metrics for EVs.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#124

Post by Nashooo »

close04 wrote: post #104
LoSboccacc wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

europe has also a radically different road network. i.e. urban-suv are doing better here than regular suv because of the difficulties in navigating cities on larger cars and are eating up station wagons too because they get a comparable load volume but none of the parking difficulties. (and they also cost less than full sized suvs and europe has been in a two decade recession, so there's that going for them too)

Most CUVs (or urban SUVs) don't really have as much cargo space as a combi. They are based on the platform of the "regular" sibling (sedan) but with the bigger wheels and axles taking up some of the interior space. The higher driving position comes at a price. To put it in context, a VW Golf Combi or Peugeot 308 SW have 10+% more cargo space in a package that's slightly longer and narrower than equivalent CUVs like S…

Skoda Karoq however can come with very easy (independent) removable backseats which creates a massive amount of cargo space.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#125

Post by dagw »

serpix wrote: post #75
petre wrote: post #34

This is the first time I hear about the Jaguar I-Pace.

Just saw one in the back country in Finland. Really deep in the sticks and on a small road. Was a great moment seeing it there. The electric revolution is coming along and unstoppably. Now would be a great time to get a career going in electrification. Electric installation / Solar power installation you name it, the demand will skyrocket.

Solar power installation you name it, the demand will skyrocket.

I work tangentially to that field and the problem is that the competition is fierce. Every old roofing company is now a solar installation company and a new solar panel company (reselling the same Chinese panels with thinner and thinner margins) is popping up every week. The only place I can see any margins is specializing in designing and setting up large industrial scale setups.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#126

Post by tyfon »

marvin wrote: post #62
tyfon wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i-pace is actually more comparable to model 3 than model S and X. It has about the same power and internal space, model x is _much_ bigger.

You’re saying it’s comprable to 3 in size and features, but S&X in price? I really don’t intend to be snarky, but I haven’t seen it, and this would be the implication if what you say is correct.

Well, model 3 is maybe a bit smaller but they are both more like sporty sedans than the model x.

Your comment might also be why the model 3 is selling like hot-cakes at the moment. The model 3 is also very efficient compared to the i-pace and charges faster. One sentiment that might be true regarding what you value in your car is that the model 3 is a better EV and the i-pace is a better car.

As for size, I recently got to compare my model x to my cousins i-pace and the internal size difference is quite substantial. The i-pace is however a very fun car to drive and it doesn't require that you go full 17" screen and strip the physical buttons. Some people value that too.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#127

Post by LeonM »

pmorici wrote: post #117
threeseed wrote: post #7

Terrible article: 1) It's only about the US. 2) Tesla's big seller is the Model 3 which isn't a competitor for the Audi e-tron and I-Pace. And given the size difference probably isn't a competitor for the Model X either. 3) No one is claiming to be a Tesla killer since no one really has direct 3, X, S, Y competitors. The existing car companies are all off doing their own thing e.g. VW ID.3 (hatchback), Hyundai Kona (…

When Tesla's competitors stop designing and electric car and start designing a really great car that just happens to be electric then Tesla will have competition. Until then all the supposed Tesla competitors will be a joke. For example it was recently reported that the Jaguar I-pace requires that you drive 17 MPH with the climate control off to achieve the manufacture specified range per charge. [0] They have 6 mont…

> When Tesla's competitors stop designing and electric car and start designing a really great car that just happens to be electric then Tesla will have competition. Until then all the supposed Tesla competitors will be a joke.

This.

I never understood why car manufacturers all make such weird wacky electric cars. When the Model S came out it was such a relief that finally there was a _normal_ looking electric car.

What I want is an electric 5-series, not the wacky i3. Don't change the appearance, just the drive train.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#128

Post by mothsonasloth »

Ex Jaguar employee here:

The I-Pace is a great car however they can't produce enough of them for demand (the waiting list was around 8 months when I left and was growing). The tooling in most of the factories is still configured for ICE and they are now repurposing some of the car factories in the midlands to be dedicated to electric vehicles.

EVs are still luxury market focussed, even with my salary I couldn't afford an E-Golf, unless I leased it.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#129

Post by pja »

pmorici wrote: post #117
threeseed wrote: post #7

Terrible article: 1) It's only about the US. 2) Tesla's big seller is the Model 3 which isn't a competitor for the Audi e-tron and I-Pace. And given the size difference probably isn't a competitor for the Model X either. 3) No one is claiming to be a Tesla killer since no one really has direct 3, X, S, Y competitors. The existing car companies are all off doing their own thing e.g. VW ID.3 (hatchback), Hyundai Kona (…

When Tesla's competitors stop designing and electric car and start designing a really great car that just happens to be electric then Tesla will have competition. Until then all the supposed Tesla competitors will be a joke. For example it was recently reported that the Jaguar I-pace requires that you drive 17 MPH with the climate control off to achieve the manufacture specified range per charge. [0] They have 6 mont…

When Tesla's competitors stop designing and electric car and start designing a really great car that just happens to be electric then Tesla will have competition. Until then all the supposed Tesla competitors will be a joke.

BMW electric Mini is due to go on the market in spring 2020 - they’re manufacturing them now in Oxford. I guess that counts as a 'real electric car'. Whether it’s a great one remains to be seen.

Range is not as great as the 3 (150 vs 210 miles IIRC?) but it’s a smaller car, so doesn’t have as much room for batteries as the 3 or S do.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#130

Post by delaaxe »

threeseed wrote: post #7

Terrible article: 1) It's only about the US. 2) Tesla's big seller is the Model 3 which isn't a competitor for the Audi e-tron and I-Pace. And given the size difference probably isn't a competitor for the Model X either. 3) No one is claiming to be a Tesla killer since no one really has direct 3, X, S, Y competitors. The existing car companies are all off doing their own thing e.g. VW ID.3 (hatchback), Hyundai Kona (…

Tesla models are supposed to be listed in this order: S, 3, X, Y (Elon wanted the model names to spell "sexy")
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