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We Have Ruined Childhood

nytimes.com

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Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#361

Post by Zenst »

dmje wrote: post #293

You guys in the States have it bad. I hear terrible stories about the fear that now surrounds any kind of freedom for kids. Over here in the UK we’re a bit better, but the “give them exams ALL the time” and schools being on their knees, financially, are all too familiar. For me, this journey with my kids has been about a massive slew of things, among the most important: - extending their childhood where possible: enc…

Even in the UK many things have changed. Can't leave child unattended rules, what they can and can't do. Lack of spaces to hangout and play. What do they have now, no spaces in many parts and if they go out and chat together on a corner some paranoid adult will phone the police saying there is a gang of youths looking menacing - happens more than people appreciate alas.

Then drugs, many area's parents won't allow their children out to play due to fear of drug addicts (heroin/crack abusers) and paraphernalia they litter about. This with the whole social housing mess of almost litterly allocating one hard core addict per 10 normal people often see's those 10 peoples live and associated offspring blighted by some "but there a victim" mentality played out by those obfuscated from the reality of the impact such abusers bring to the area. You read about county lines and how `vulnerable addicts` are victims, yet you never hear about the impact they have upon all the other neibours. I know this, I've suffered this and more so, still suffer from this and the police etc are beyond useless. Seen parents take the law into their own hands with one case of some addicts doing crack cocaine in a car in his driveway - police called and effectively unwilling to do anything beyond take license plate so they could flag upon their `intelligence` system. SO the parent baseball batted their car, junkies called police who responded instantly and he ended up in jail. So when you have that kind of environment, kinda hard upon the children to actually go out and play when it's not safe.

But many activities kids enjoyed as social freedoms out playing yesterday are not their today and makes you ponder what they will have tomorrow.

Hence many kids embrace the internet as it is the wild west of freedom for them to explore, a freedom that the real World outside has lost due to all the warning and keep out signs placed due to `smothering`.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#362

Post by zild3d »

Waterluvian wrote: post #80

My wife and I have 2.5 and 0.7 year olds. Because of remote work, I have the luxury of living basically anywhere. My wife and I made the move from a 300k city to a 40k city about 45 minutes away. There's many reasons we did. Chiefly, it's far far cheaper. But also, it's calmer and quieter and just a nicer way to live. What we didn't expect to see, which we are absolutely delighted about, is how different childhood se…

Agree, lived in Ithaca, NY for 3 years. Small city with lots of nature surrounding (waterfalls and gorges in walking distance). Teens and young kids seem largely free to roam and play outside

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#363

Post by scroy »

taurath wrote: post #232
tjr225 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we need to advocate for this stuff from our government. If enough of us agree that we should make this possible, it can happen.

Things like... community gathering that people will actually use (see: night markets anywhere in Asia), banning of outdoor billboards, health care gauranteed whether you’re working a good job, a bad job, or taking a break. Mandatory vacation leave. Overtime pay for even salaried workers. Plenty of things that could say that we as a society mean to do more than make the rich richer for a .1% chance to become the rich.

Outdoor billboards...?

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#364

Post by scroy »

emerongi wrote: post #289
oska wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to re-read your comment. At first I thought you were saying you had one hour of homework per night. One hour per class per day is insane. I regularly avoided doing homework throughout my school life. The only thing I think that suffered was my understanding of physics & chemistry. I doubt I would have better understanding now in any other subject area if I had done more homework, including maths and the foreign…

I also never did homework at home and I agree that it was probably for the better. The only bad effect is that homework got associated with bad feelings (anxiety, stress), because I had to find ways to still get them done without doing them at home. Going into university this was hard to undo. We also had the rule of one hour per class per day. The funny thing is that this scales up the more time you spend in school,…

> Of course no school would do that because it would be a nightmare.

What do you mean by this?

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#365

Post by The_rationalist »

odessacubbage wrote: post #133
The_rationalist wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware this is a retrograde sect?

could you elaborate?

From Wikipedia Authors, scientists, and physicians including Michael Shermer, Michael Ruse, Edzard Ernst, David Gorski, and Simon Singh have criticized anthroposophy's application in the areas of medicine, biology, agriculture, and education to be dangerous and pseudoscientific.[17][11][12][13] Others including former Waldorf pupil Dan Dugan and historian Geoffrey Ahern have criticized anthroposophy itself as a dangerous quasi-religious movement that is fundamentally anti-rational and anti-scientific.[14][15][16][17][18] They are anti Vax, believe in "Lucifer" and their single source of truth come from Steiner "visions" aka hallucinations under psychedelics or more likely blatant lies.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#366

Post by yoz-y »

emerongi wrote: post #289
oska wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to re-read your comment. At first I thought you were saying you had one hour of homework per night. One hour per class per day is insane. I regularly avoided doing homework throughout my school life. The only thing I think that suffered was my understanding of physics & chemistry. I doubt I would have better understanding now in any other subject area if I had done more homework, including maths and the foreign…

I also never did homework at home and I agree that it was probably for the better. The only bad effect is that homework got associated with bad feelings (anxiety, stress), because I had to find ways to still get them done without doing them at home. Going into university this was hard to undo. We also had the rule of one hour per class per day. The funny thing is that this scales up the more time you spend in school,…

> Of course no school would do that because it would be a nightmare.

In France if you are a dorm resident in high school you do have such mandatory "schoolwork" classes. You start with a mandatory 10 hours (IIRC) of classes of study that you have to do each week. These are done in specific rooms at specific times, but you can choose when to go (usually there is one hour open during lunch period and 2 to 3 hours in the evenings).

Depending on your grades the amount of mandatory hours goes up or down. If you are good enough it can go down to zero. When I was in high school these hours were largely enough to finish all homework, including the mandatory reading assignments.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#367

Post by mosselman »

dtwest wrote: post #352
parasubvert wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all pretty US-centric. Kids are allowed a fair amount of freedom in Canada and Europe, where I still see a lot of kids around malls, or parks, playing basketball in courts (which still happens in NYC), or wooded areas. Sure, more are on their phones etc. But it’s really not that different from the 90s IMO, in many locations. The biggest change is there aren’t so many clusters of “neighbourhood kids” as there…

Of course it is US-centric, the post is from a US newspaper. Nobody would comment "This is all pretty German-centric" if the post came from a German newspaper. Maybe I don't understand your point. That aside, I completely agree with your comment. Public spaces and well designed cities that allow for those clusters are very important to kids. For whatever it's worth though, I don't think things were that much better i…

> Of course it is US-centric, the post is from a US newspaper.

What is your point? Whether this is a US-centric or global issue seems like valuable information for the discussion. If it really is a US-centric problem, the solution, for the US, might be to look outward at other countries. If it were a global issue, we'd all have to look into our past to find a solution. It is important to know the scale of the problem don't you think?

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#368

Post by agent008t »

taurath wrote: post #55

I mean. I’m not okay either. I work to try to reduce my screen time as much as I can but when it’s part of the job and also an always ready hit of dissociative dopamine in my pocket it creates an awful feedback loop that I’m not equipped to handle. At work as a programmer, you’re “supposed” to spend some free time doing projects and have “hobby development”, so you can reach the next career echelon. Even not in a pro…

Out of interest - what is stopping you from moving to one of these other countries?

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#369

Post by pmjordan »

aiyodev wrote: post #231
maire wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure how old you are but everything seemed to change when abducted children were put on milk cartons in the mid 1980s. Before that, kids roamed free. I tell my foreign friends that kids used to run the streets in America and they can hardly believe it. The funny thing is that the danger of "stranger abductions" has been over blown. Most abductions are non-custodial parents.

Which countries still allow children to grow up free?

Having close connections to both countries, I can say that kids in Austria are definitely freer than in the UK.

For one, in Austria, kids have a legal right to go to school on their own, be it on foot or by public transport. A lot of parents do drive their kids to school, unfortunately even where it's really not necessary, but you do also see plenty of young kids walking there or home, or taking the bus or train. You definitely also see more kids "hanging out" in Austria - in the UK, everyone seems quick to jump to conclusions about gangs, so I guess "respectable" parents won't let their kids do that.

On the other hand, I felt I probably had even more freedom growing up in the 90s (in Austria) than many of today's kids. This is probably more of an individual choice of the parents (for some reason, people are afraid, despite this being one of the safest countries in the world) than direct societal pressure (being reported to the cops or social services, etc.) as it seems to be in the UK or US.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#370

Post by [deleted] »

Reedx wrote: post #228
mbrumlow wrote: post #3

I have a child. I love him very much. I can not fathom why any parents would not have free time as priority. Free time is amazing. Here is why. - I get a break. - My child gets to learn how to learn on his own. - My child builds independence. - My child learns to manage his time on his own. I see this playing out in the work force too. Far too many people I have worked with that are younger need to be told exactly wh…

I worry about young kids whose parents give them an iPad at all times, to the point that they're not even without it during a meal at a restaurant or other occasions. And how that may affect their ability to develop resiliency and creativity.

[deleted]
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