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We Have Ruined Childhood

nytimes.com

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Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#351

Post by CMCDragonkai »

aiyodev wrote: post #231
maire wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure how old you are but everything seemed to change when abducted children were put on milk cartons in the mid 1980s. Before that, kids roamed free. I tell my foreign friends that kids used to run the streets in America and they can hardly believe it. The funny thing is that the danger of "stranger abductions" has been over blown. Most abductions are non-custodial parents.

Which countries still allow children to grow up free?

When I was a kid, New Zealand.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#352

Post by dtwest »

parasubvert wrote: post #282
Rotdhizon wrote: post #83

Seems like society is constantly pushing to remove all the ways in which kids used to live. Can't just wonder around and play on the sidewalks or the streets anymore with your friends, someone will call the police on you. Can't hang out in the woods, as those have mostly been torn down to make way for new neighborhoods, and the woods that do remain are typically private property. Unless you are lucky enough to live i…

This is all pretty US-centric. Kids are allowed a fair amount of freedom in Canada and Europe, where I still see a lot of kids around malls, or parks, playing basketball in courts (which still happens in NYC), or wooded areas. Sure, more are on their phones etc. But it’s really not that different from the 90s IMO, in many locations. The biggest change is there aren’t so many clusters of “neighbourhood kids” as there…

Of course it is US-centric, the post is from a US newspaper. Nobody would comment "This is all pretty German-centric" if the post came from a German newspaper. Maybe I don't understand your point.

That aside, I completely agree with your comment. Public spaces and well designed cities that allow for those clusters are very important to kids.

For whatever it's worth though, I don't think things were that much better in the US back in the 90s. In recent history the US has always been worse in this regard than Canada and Europe.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#353

Post by watwut »

Reedx wrote: post #228
mbrumlow wrote: post #3

I have a child. I love him very much. I can not fathom why any parents would not have free time as priority. Free time is amazing. Here is why. - I get a break. - My child gets to learn how to learn on his own. - My child builds independence. - My child learns to manage his time on his own. I see this playing out in the work force too. Far too many people I have worked with that are younger need to be told exactly wh…

I worry about young kids whose parents give them an iPad at all times, to the point that they're not even without it during a meal at a restaurant or other occasions. And how that may affect their ability to develop resiliency and creativity.

During the meal at restaurant is the exact time where you bring up iPad even if you normally dont. It is so that a.) other people in restaurant eat at peace b.) parents can talk to each other about adult topics (work, family etc).

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#354

Post by pjc50 »

exhaze wrote: post #311
dmje wrote: post #293

You guys in the States have it bad. I hear terrible stories about the fear that now surrounds any kind of freedom for kids. Over here in the UK we’re a bit better, but the “give them exams ALL the time” and schools being on their knees, financially, are all too familiar. For me, this journey with my kids has been about a massive slew of things, among the most important: - extending their childhood where possible: enc…

Why don't you just find a WFH job where you don't make so little money that you consider yourself "poor"? I appreciate the sentiment of wanting to spend time with your kids, and I know life is about trade-offs, but it seems a bit extreme to decide that the only way to spend quality time with your kids is to move to a remote village, completely sacrifice earning ability, and reject smartphone technology (I have a smar…

"Why don't you just" is always a stupid thing to say to someone when you don't know about their life, because chances are they're a smart person, have thought of that, and have reasons for not doing it, which they are not obliged to tell you.

> move to a remote village

This wasn't mentioned.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#355

Post by watwut »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #272
wizzard wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For much of this, we have over-involved, over-concerned mothers to thank (and a bunch of dads that think like moms). What a hateful, sexist notion to put in the middle of an otherwise articulate comment.

I wouldn't generalize it like the parent, but it's dfinitely true for ma and many of my friends. Our mothers were very involved and concerned, our fathers - less so. They wouldn't worry that much that something bad would happen. The attitude towards risk is a known differentiator between the two sexes, so there is some truth in that otherwise a bit politically incorrect and impolite statement.

People who are not actively involved with small children, often overestimate or underestimate what kids can do. In case of uninvolved fathers, it is likely the case of them rarely be there so rarely have experience with how easily and what exactly kids can mess up. Unlike involved parent who has that experience.

Or what kids actually are able to.

That experience effect is likely much larger then whatever general risk-taking attitude by gender is.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#356

Post by huffmsa »

The schooling aspects of this are largely just a fact of life when you attempt to centralize and standardize education at this kind of scale.

> Well it's not like that in {{small, rich, socialist European country du jour}}

Again, scale. Only Japan and China have really had to deal with this, and their children are likely as stressed and free of free time as those in the US.

Large scale means strict standards with zero room for deviation.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#357

Post by scroy »

Pimpus wrote: post #308
codingslave wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree. There's real issues that arent being addressed, and maybe they can't be addressed. I consider myself smart, but can't really tell whats true anymore. Which side should I be on, why is the USA declining, its complicated

The US became too prosperous, too fast. They're an example for other countries to learn from in their own development - emulate the good parts, avoid the bad. In Eastern Europe smart phones are just starting to become commonplace and people are already aware of how harmful they are, parents especially. The US does have one huge advantage the other countries don't though. > I can't really tell what's true anymore This…

> The US does have one huge advantage the other countries don't though.

What's that?

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#358

Post by watwut »

FillardMillmore wrote: post #54
fzeroracer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, considering the era they quoted, I would say that black people might've had a bit more trouble raising kids than white people in the 1950s-1970s for reasons I hope would be incredibly obvious.

Compared to whites in that time period, sure. The raising of kids seems to me to be a multifaceted issue. One interesting example: most would agree that having two parents in a household is better for raising kids. In the early 20th century, despite racism and segregation, black divorce rates and birth outside of wedlock was much lower than it is for blacks today. Of course, those rates have gone up for all races ove…

You changed topic here completely. What does that have to do with different child raising standards and habits in 1950-1970 blacks vs whites?

The raising incarceration rates are mostly on black men being arrested more. So obviously, there are less black men available to form families.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#359

Post by technothrasher »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #327
maxheadroom wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...and the woods that do remain are typically private property. I've heard that in the states you can own a piece of property but have "no right" to get to it, as it's surrounded by other pieces of private property and, so, you're at the whims of those properties' owners. Is this true? In Sweden, we have the concept of 'Allemansrätten'[0]; which is to say that 'private property' (in the absolute sense) doesn't exis…

Agreed with other poster: If you own land that is completely surrounded by other land, you generally have the right to go through other's land. But on the other hand, it really isn't "allmansrätten" either. (I am from the US and live in Norway - and norway has the same sort of laws). Here in Norway, you can simply camp for a night in some unused wooded area or a field that is obviously not used. In the US, you can ge…

This depends upon the state. Here in MA, you cannot stop people from being on your 'unimproved land'. In other words, people are not allowed to trample your lawn, but they are free to wander your woods. There are generally town bylaws against hunting land without the owner's permission though.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#360

Post by DanBC »

dawidw wrote: post #340
DanBC wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of discussion in the Wikipedia article saying that you can't compare rates internationally. Please be a bit more careful with statistics.

That intrigued me. Why one can't compare rates internationally? I think we can and that what rates are for, aren't they?

These are "police recorded numbers".

In England police recorded numbers for crime are not seen as statistically sound.

> In January 2014 the UK Statistics Authority published an assessment of ONS crime statistics. It found that statistics based on police recorded crime data, having been assessed against the Code of Practice for Official Statistics, were found not to meet the required standard for designation as National Statistics.

We can't compare the numbers between Japan and the US because we don't know what definition of rape is being used in each country (and for the US that definition is different for every state).

We don't know if there are cultural things that change how many people report a rape to police. We don't know if police record every report.

Here's a Human Rights Watch article about problems with the Japanese justice system's approach to rape and sexual violence: https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/07/29/japans-not-so-secret-sha...

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