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Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

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Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#91
post #87
post #28

Toyota and Volkswagen will make more affordable higher quality main stream electric cars.

yes, tesla dominates high end market, there is space for other manufacturers in middle and low ends though

Tesla don't dominate the high end market, BMW alone make 2,500,000 cars a year.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#92
post #62
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i-pace is actually more comparable to model 3 than model S and X. It has about the same power and internal space, model x is _much_ bigger.

You’re saying it’s comprable to 3 in size and features, but S&X in price? I really don’t intend to be snarky, but I haven’t seen it, and this would be the implication if what you say is correct.

Wikipedia calls the Model X, I-Pace and Model 3 "Mid-size luxury crossover SUV", "Compact luxury crossover SUV" and "Compact executive car" respectively.

The I-Pace has 8% less length, 8% less height, and 12% less weight than the Model X 90D. The widths are comparable.

The I-Pace has 9% more width, 9% more height, and 15% more weight than the Model 3 Range AWD. The lengths are comparable.

I would say this puts the I-Pace half way between the Model X and the Model 3 in terms of size. In terms of class, I'd say the I-Pace is closer to the Model X, both being luxury crossover SUVs.

More broadly, Jaguar is a historically British company, and Britain's roads and parking spaces are narrower than those in the US, so the truck and full-size SUV classes are much less popular.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#93
post #28

Toyota and Volkswagen will make more affordable higher quality main stream electric cars.

This assumes those companies will solve the energy storage issue in a reasonable amount of time. I wouldn't be so sure of that. Tesla does a lot of shit wrong, but Musk is ahead of people RE: batteries and energy storage importance. I am reminded of Bezos saying that their headstart in AWS with no viable competitor for years and years on end is what catapulted Amazon to what it is today. Tesla has a shot of making th…

I'm not convinced. My prediction is Tesla will be a subsidiary of one of the big car companies within a decade, probably one of the laggards.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#94
post #47
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been done: the Audi Allroad. But it's plagued by damper issues.

Dough de Muro called it the "second worst car ever manufactured in the entire history of the automobile" :) Actually, many upper class cars have height adaptable dampers. I know of one wealthy forest owner who bought the (at that time) super luxury Mercedes 500CL (W215) because the adaptable dampers also made it a great offroad car.

The W215 is a beast. It's also very scary fast. There is also an upgraded version by AMG (CL55). I highly doubt Mercedes made money on any of them, and as a - former - owners, I was very happy that mine was under warranty because of the stuff that can break on that car and what it typically costs to fix it. The ride height adjustment system is great - when it works - just like the Citroen DS, it is the proverbial magic carpet ride but the technical complexity does not really help.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#95
What I'd like to know is how much money they're losing per car sold on these models. Jaguar have acknowledged that they're deeper in the red due to higher than expected i-Pace costs. If they have negative margins on these cars, perhaps they don't really want to sell more than the budgeted 10K/year or so.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#96
post #28

Toyota and Volkswagen will make more affordable higher quality main stream electric cars.

Perhaps in 3,5,10 years. But if you want to buy now, you'll have to be very emotional about it if you don't consider Tesla's cars the best option.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#97
post #42
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People buy ICE cars knowing the petrol delivery infrastructure means they'll never run out of gas on a long trip. People are wary of short range electric vehicles because they might not find a charger in time, or the chargers they do find might be in use, and then they'll be stranded.

Range anxiety is definitely a thing, especially if you've never driven an EV and have heard it exists. The issue is a non-issue for most Tesla buyers who have home charging. The situation will hopefully resolve itself unquestionably in the next 2-3 years.

As a potential EV buyer, what concerns me is that a quoted 200 mile range sounds more like a 100 mile range after five years (so an older battery) in winter (when I'll want heating). That would limit me to driving only 50 miles from my home without having to alter my plans around charging, and I would want to add some contingency so perhaps that'd end up being 30 miles in practice.

Feel free to tell me that I'm being overly pessimistic, but that's how our consumer-hostile marketing culture (in general and not specifically the EV industry) has taught me to be. Rapid battery degradation in typical consumer devices also influences my impression.

Perhaps regularly replacing/refurbishing batteries would help with this. How would this affect the TCO when compared to a gasoline car? I don't know. What's the resale value of an old EV likely to be given the rapid development in the newest models, and how will that affect the TCO? Again, I don't know.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#98
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if "looks cool" is the same thing as status (probably not) but station wagons in the US have a history of being the ugliest thing on the road. Maybe the only competitor for worst on the list of cool factor is the mini van. Much of the US is a truck culture. You can drive more places and carry more cargo than anything else. In this case, status becomes proudly declaring yourself as blue collar as opposed…

In Europe, SUVs and crossovers are bought by people with children, back problems or those who think that it will make them look interesting. None of those are “cool”. Unless you like to holler at single moms at the playground boosting about the triple ISO fix childseat attachment. Marketing does a great job into making you think that SUVs are for hip young people with active urban lifestyles but in reality it’s mainl…

europe has also a radically different road network. i.e. urban-suv are doing better here than regular suv because of the difficulties in navigating cities on larger cars and are eating up station wagons too because they get a comparable load volume but none of the parking difficulties. (and they also cost less than full sized suvs and europe has been in a two decade recession, so there's that going for them too)

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#99
post #58
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has traditionally been a station wagon country. Although SUVs are everywhere now, you still see more station wagons. As I see it, SUVs are used as a status symbol and they have the advantage of an elevated driving position. Station wagons are generally used by people who "do stuff", who have to transport things or drive long distances. It it the car of the practical thinkers. Station wagons are also driven by…

> the advantage of an elevated driving position One of the big car makers actually had a full psychological workup on different SUV driver cohorts, and small females make up a disproportionate cohort for exactly this reason. The perception is that the higher vantage makes things safer in spite of the reality that the SUV is less safe because it takes more physical strength to actually handle the car in emergency situ…

> ... is less safe because it takes more physical strength to actually handle the car in emergency situations.

Almost no driver you describe would be able to handle a 2000kg+ car (any type) without power steering and brake assistance which is why they all have this and this is no longer a problem.

The higher vantage point in combination with a bigger car also causes more low speed bumps and low speed pedestrian hits, but then again "you" are safe.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#100
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the porsche taycan seems like the ideal electric car honestly. If the price is not that ridiculous it'll probably be my first electric vehicle.

I myself was waiting for the Taycan, its looks stunning, and is very impressive, but on pure specs, its actually the same size as a Model 3 Performance, and a little slower... So I just ordered a Model 3 Performance. I currently drive a Model S.

How is that even remotely similar? Wow
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