We Have Ruined Childhood • Hacker News Board

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#101

Post by shioyama » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:32 AM UTC

dragonsh wrote: post #96

shioyama wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which I think is more of a problem than helicopter parenting in America Sorry, as a parent in Japan, I beg to disagree. The system here has lots of problems, don't get me wrong - and I really don't like the "juku" (cram-school) model at all. But particularly at younger ages (which in many ways are the most important ones), there is still that fundamental freedom to be on your own with your friends. Kids age as youn…

Well Seoul, Hong Kong, Taipei, Singapore, Beijing, Shanghai are similar when it comes to kid going out. But the childhood is still under siege in these places by constant pressure to excel with lots of extra curricular classes. My close friends kids in Tokyo, Seoul, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taipei, Shanghai and Beijing spend most of their time in extra tutoring or music or painting or dance classes or something else whe…

> My close friends kids in Tokyo, Seoul, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taipei, Shanghai and Beijing spend most of their time in extra tutoring or music or painting or dance classes or something else where they have to excel.

Of course this happens, but let me return to my point: it's perfectly normal to see a 5-year-old in the park on their own (here in Japan). In the U.S., the parent would be arrested.

Don't try to convince me that those are the same, they clearly are not. Pressure on kids, etc. varies by social strata, city/country, etc. But the degree to which it has been institutionalized, accepted, etc in North America is very different, and I would argue pathological.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#102

Post by OrgNet » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:33 AM UTC

esotericn wrote: post #2

Is this exclusive to childhood? It feels to me, though this could well be a socio-economic bubble thing, that people are just scrambling everywhere. Hyperfocused on something; anything. Maybe it's their career; maybe it's their cause; whatever. But the innocence of just living, existing; hanging out in this beautiful world we call home; seems to be fading for many. Happiness must be now, not future, otherwise future…

> Is this exclusive to childhood?

It applies to most of the world

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#103

Post by Gibbon1 » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:33 AM UTC

mattrp wrote: post #30

koolba wrote: post #21

That’s a hell of a clickbait headline for a supposed paper of record. I don’t even disagree with the premise. It doesn’t make it less disgusting though. That aside, the weight of this sits on the parents, not society. Parents dump their children into scholastic programs and extra curriculars not because of the results, they do so because they’re lazy and refuse to do the tasks themselves. They think it’s difficult to…

With five kids of my own, I can certainly say that an hour of play would reduce the perfectly groomed worlds of most people to rubble while leaving them in tears. That’s not to argue against play it’s just that you have to accept that it’s not quite something you can post to Instagram.

Erma Bombeck said "Having kids means not having nice things for 18 years"

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#104

Post by darkerside » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:34 AM UTC

cmroanirgo wrote: post #43

protomyth wrote: post #5

Well, if you report 24x7 hate and danger, scare the crap out of people, and report that there is danger behind every tree, then yes, childhoods are ruined. Things are getting safer and the only way you would know it is go look at the CDC stats. Kids need time with their friends away from parents. I'm so glad I was able to grow up in the (sadly last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation.

From the article: > The suicide rate for children is twice what it is for children during months when school is in session than when it’s not in session,” according to Dr. Gray. “That’s true for suicide completion, suicide attempts and suicidal ideation, whereas for adults, it’s higher in the summer. It seems that families are particularly under stress if such observances can be made. As a single white guy, I find th…

Uh, winter???

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#105

Post by tomohawk » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:34 AM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #77

protomyth wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Unless it's a difference in degree" Let your kids play outside by themselves or walk to school, and get reported to Child Protective Services. It is very much a different world these days.

Look - I'm sure you can find some outlier news article about this happening, but as someone who actually has professional contact with CPS once in a while, this is - in my opinion - wildly hyperbolic. The social workers I know who work for CPS have excessive work loads of really intense circumstances (like, children being preyed upon, beaten, chained to radiators...). They're not doing parent interviews because someo…

We have friends who get calls from "concerned neighbors" because their child is a block away playing at a park with no adult supervision. Any wanker can call cps and make your life miserable, and the wealthier the area, the more cps tends to meddle. Montgomery county mentioned in the sibling comment is one of the most well-to-do counties in the country and also a place I would not ever consider raising a child in due to cps actions there.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#106

Post by diminoten » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:35 AM UTC

chrissnell wrote: post #97

I am a parent of two boys—ages 7 and 4–and I hardly recognize the negative forces that this author laments over because my wife and I have simply chosen not to raise our kids that way. When my boys get home, we get outside and do sports. We’re in the middle of (tackle) football season right now and that’s what my 7 year-old does five days a week for two hours every evening. It’s exercise, fun, camaraderie, and lesson…

Great, and now your kid isn't going to be as well versed as their peers in the technology that drives literally everything. They'll be left behind as the kids who were allowed to grow/learn using modern tools fly past them.

You can't win. Everyone damages their children, stop pretending like you're some kind of exception.

Additionally, this nostalgic "My childhood was great these kids don't get what I had" is bullshit. The options available to children today to grow, explore, learn and interact with others has exploded. We did "ruin" your childhood, and made it immensely better.

Trying to give your child the childhood you had is abuse via neglect, at this point.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#107

Post by Zoo3y » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:35 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #80

My wife and I have 2.5 and 0.7 year olds. Because of remote work, I have the luxury of living basically anywhere. My wife and I made the move from a 300k city to a 40k city about 45 minutes away. There's many reasons we did. Chiefly, it's far far cheaper. But also, it's calmer and quieter and just a nicer way to live. What we didn't expect to see, which we are absolutely delighted about, is how different childhood se…

Would you happen to live somewhere in Europe?

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#108

Post by EGreg » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:36 AM UTC

Here are some hard economic truths. Both parents work. That’s a big part of it. Women have joined men in the corporate workforce and are encouraged to work 10 hour days and move up the corporate ladder. This together with automation and outsourcing and trickle down economics (eg lower capital gains tax than income tax) has contributed to wage stagnation. In the past, taking care of children was indirectly valued economically, because in many households, there was a division of labor and only one parent was available to work for the market.

So now it takes both parents to pay the same rent that one breadwinner could pay before. Now that both parents are trading a large part of their time to work for corporations instead of taking care of kids, most of the kids are being put in a public school - it has become essentially a glorified daycare center to watch the kids while the parents work. So the work is outsourced to professionals in the school zoned for their residence (nevermind failing schools). They are told to sit down and shut up for 8-10 hours a day. The teachers are told not to do anything rash if the kids act out. There is not much they can do to stop it. The kids that are too troublesome are put in special ed and/or medicated with ADD medications that are chemically similar to methamphetamines.

Working adults also do this to their parents sometimes, putting them in nursing homes which keep them medicated if they are too anxious.

Sadly, it gets worse. There is an opioid epidemic among men and a quarter of middle aged women are taking antidepressants. People are lonely, often living alone without family or village, getting amazon or food deliveries, speaking for 5 seconds with the delivery person, and no one knows most of their neighbors.

We in the US need to have a hard look at our society instead of medicating everyone.

A major step forward would be a UBI and a 30 hour workweek. Men AND women can be amazing parents to their children and caretakers to their own parents if given the chance economically.

PS: And the animals too, we need to end factory farming and overuse of antibiotics and thinking it’s ok. This is a sick society.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#109

Post by gumby » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:37 AM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #5

Well, if you report 24x7 hate and danger, scare the crap out of people, and report that there is danger behind every tree, then yes, childhoods are ruined. Things are getting safer and the only way you would know it is go look at the CDC stats. Kids need time with their friends away from parents. I'm so glad I was able to grow up in the (sadly last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation.

> ... last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation.

It's a US newspaper talking about a particular US pathology. China manifests this in a different way (heavy tracking of kids) but I think most countries are perfectly ok with kids being kids.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#110

Post by wallace_f » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:38 AM UTC

shioyama wrote: post #73

freetime2 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also in Japan, and we feel comfortable letting our 5 year old roam around the neighborhood on his own. And when he starts 1st grade he will walk to school with his friends. The only thing that really scares me here are cars. People tend to drive a little too fast in residential areas IMO. Especially delivery trucks... although at least you can hear them coming from far away.

Completely agree, cars are the main thing that worry me as well (in the city).

I remember meeting a young French dude that camped his way around Japan, even in the cities.

In my home city in the US, you couldn't even walk in downtown after dark.