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California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

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Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#121

Post by ajross »

rabbitonrails wrote: post #117
ajross wrote: post #15

> The triple scourges of drug abuse, mental illness and family breakdown have produced anomie and derangements far deeper than those seen in the 1930s Completely unsourced nonsense. As if there were no homeless families or mental illness in the great depression. Even drug abuse isn't a modern thing, though the chemicals have changed. I mean it doesn't even pass the basic (heh) smell test of "would you rather walk the…

It's an opinion piece.

Uh... under normal journalistic practice, even opinion pieces are expected to support statements that they present as fact. Maybe things are different in conservative media, I dunno.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#122

Post by cameldrv »

pmoriarty wrote: post #77
ravenstine wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are public toilets in some of these cities. San Francisco has had self-cleaning public toilets for a long time, but probably has the worst feces problem of any first world country. On Google maps, it appears there are at least 20 public bathrooms in SF within a few miles radius. That's way more than I see when searching for the same thing in Santa Monica, another homeless mecca that doesn't have anywhere near t…

There should be at least one clean and safe public toilet per block that has a "defecation crisis". Instead, SF has maybe one public toilet per 20 or 30 blocks in the most concentrated downtown areas, if that. I personally know of only maybe 3 or 4 public toilets in all of SF. Toilet use at private businesses is also sometimes an option, but often in neighborhoods with large homeless populations those businesses eith…

Bingo. SF has had a big homeless population for some time unfortunately, but the poop on the streets is fairly new. What changed?

1. ADA private right of action spawned a class of professional plaintiffs that sue businesses over (in many cases) minor technical ADA violations like not having a coat hook at the right height in the bathroom. Many, many businesses closed their bathrooms to the public because of this.

2. Less intervention by police. In SF, the police won't arrest you for shooting heroin in a bathroom or trashing it. If the business owner calls about someone doing this, the police won't respond. The simple solution is to close the bathroom to the public.

3. Street defication effectively legalized. Similar to #2, the police won't arrest you if you poop on the street. This is different than most cities, and different than what was historically true in SF.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#123

Post by jgalt212 »

holycrapwhodat wrote: post #63
weeksie wrote: post #14

Build. More. Homeless. Shelters. California is so damned NIMBY'd up that they refuse to build shelters and act surprised when homeless people sleep outside. Then they throw their hands up in the air like "uh, it must be the weather" It's stupid. In New York we have more homeless per capita and in absolute numbers but we have nothing like the street issues that west coast cities have. It's because we actually house th…

> In New York we have more homeless per capita... At least based on latest 2018 numbers I found for both cities, that's not true. NYC 78676 homeless with 8398748 residents. SF 9784 homeless with 870877 residents. 106 residents per homeless individual in NYC. Only 89 residents per homeless individual in SF. > And for fuck's sake, it's not the weather. Our parks aren't by any means pristine but we don't suddenly sprout…

That's an interesting stat. From visits to SF, it seems that a sizable % of the homeless in SF are really just vagrants, whereas in NYC they largely seem to destitute/mentally ill homeless.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#124

Post by vondur »

mdorazio wrote: post #67
weeksie wrote: post #14

Build. More. Homeless. Shelters. California is so damned NIMBY'd up that they refuse to build shelters and act surprised when homeless people sleep outside. Then they throw their hands up in the air like "uh, it must be the weather" It's stupid. In New York we have more homeless per capita and in absolute numbers but we have nothing like the street issues that west coast cities have. It's because we actually house th…

It's not quite that simple. The West Coast has seen a huge influx of homeless people (ex. [1] - 12% YoY increase in LA) while the nation overall has seen a drop [2]. If your homeless population is steady or falling it's easier to build enough services for them than if thousands more arrive every year. Also, I agree that more shelters and services need to be built, but it would be nice if the Federal government pitche…

I know I’ve read how Las Vegas and places in Texas were giving their homeless one way tickets to cities in California.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#125

Post by ribeyes »

throebd wrote: post #10

It is a ban of plastic bags from supermarkets. People have some decency, but with ban there is no way to dispose excrements.

Also, banning plastic bags and straws has no positive impact on the environment.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/09/711181385/are-...

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#126

Post by klyrs »

api wrote: post #108
bradleyjg wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proposed 5000 unit development which has just been killed by NIMBYs is within blocks of two different subway stations. Few if any any of the residents would have owned cars. Roads are not an issue here. It's pure against-all-change conservatism. It's fine to have that personality type, but the vast, overwhelming majority of the country is filled with landscapes that change slowly if at all. Can't the small island…

My cynical take is that we just have to wait out the boomers. We changed and grew in every way until they took over and everything stopped. I think it will restart when they retire.

> My cynical take is that we just have to wait out the boomers...

Not to double down on cynicism but what makes you think that oligarchs of the following generations will be any less self serving?

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#127

Post by belltaco »

ceejayoz wrote: post #71
mdorazio wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not quite that simple. The West Coast has seen a huge influx of homeless people (ex. [1] - 12% YoY increase in LA) while the nation overall has seen a drop [2]. If your homeless population is steady or falling it's easier to build enough services for them than if thousands more arrive every year. Also, I agree that more shelters and services need to be built, but it would be nice if the Federal government pitche…

California's also exporting their homeless problems. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...

It's the other way round.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...

CA is trying to send some people back and that's being spun as "exporting".

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#128

Post by oceanghost »

microtherion wrote: post #107
mdorazio wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not quite that simple. The West Coast has seen a huge influx of homeless people (ex. [1] - 12% YoY increase in LA) while the nation overall has seen a drop [2]. If your homeless population is steady or falling it's easier to build enough services for them than if thousands more arrive every year. Also, I agree that more shelters and services need to be built, but it would be nice if the Federal government pitche…

> The West Coast has seen a huge influx of homeless people Your source shows an INCREASE of homeless people, but not necessarily an INFLUX, i.e. it's not clear whether the newly homeless are in fact "arriving" (from out of state) or have been prior residents who lost their shelter. Anecdotally, I don't think I've ever met somebody who had a PLAN to move to California to be homeless there. But I've met a number of peo…

Actually, rehab's are importing the homeless into California. John Oliver did a show on it.

https://www.ocregister.com/2017/12/17/are-drug-rehab-centers...

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#129

Post by pmoriarty »

cameldrv wrote: post #122
pmoriarty wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be at least one clean and safe public toilet per block that has a "defecation crisis". Instead, SF has maybe one public toilet per 20 or 30 blocks in the most concentrated downtown areas, if that. I personally know of only maybe 3 or 4 public toilets in all of SF. Toilet use at private businesses is also sometimes an option, but often in neighborhoods with large homeless populations those businesses eith…

Bingo. SF has had a big homeless population for some time unfortunately, but the poop on the streets is fairly new. What changed? 1. ADA private right of action spawned a class of professional plaintiffs that sue businesses over (in many cases) minor technical ADA violations like not having a coat hook at the right height in the bathroom. Many, many businesses closed their bathrooms to the public because of this. 2.…

"1. ADA private right of action spawned a class of professional plaintiffs that sue businesses over (in many cases) minor technical ADA violations like not having a coat hook at the right height in the bathroom. Many, many businesses closed their bathrooms to the public because of this."

I'd like to see the stats on the number of frivolous ADA lawsuits that caused businesses to close their bathrooms.

In my personal experience, few businesses have no bathrooms whatsoever and the businesses that make their bathrooms off-limits to the public or require you be a customer to use the bathroom tend to be in areas with high homeless populations. In areas where there are few homeless the businesses almost never have a problem with a non-customer using their bathroom.

This tells me that these businesses primarily have a problem with homeless people using their bathrooms, not any kind of fear over being sued over ADA violations.

"3. Street defication effectively legalized. Similar to #2, the police won't arrest you if you poop on the street. This is different than most cities, and different than what was historically true in SF."

Do we really want to fill our already overcrowded, mortally dangerous prisons with more homeless people? Why not just build more bathrooms, shelters, and affordable housing?

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#130

Post by eli_gottlieb »

archaea_hao wrote: post #7
empath75 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need better mental health care, and cheaper housing.

Mental healthcare may be relevant to this issue. But the cost of housing is not. These people cannot hold jobs because they are mentally ill. They need state provided institutional care, otherwise they will remain on the streets.

This may only apply in New York, but last I heard, most homeless people have jobs.
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