The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure • Hacker News Board

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#41

Post by phtrivier » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 8:40 PM UTC

I can't imagine how hard it must have been, in France of all places, to try something that bold and risky and obvious to oppose beforehand.

We're the country of ruthless self deprecation coupled with perfectionist universalism.

I hope something was learnt here (other than learning not to do it again), and I'm absolutely confident the people who cluelessly pushed for it will go on their public careers unaffected while the innocents are punished.

We've done more insane stuff and survived to tell the tale.

But really, PV in Normandy ? Come oooooon....

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#42

Post by tootie » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 8:40 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #39

"The engineers also didn't take into account the effects of leaves, which caused damage and limited the amount of electricity the panels could produce. They also didn't think about the pressure and weight from tractors, two locals told Le Monde." They were warned about this.

I find it hard to believe they were really unaware. They either overestimated the durability of their devices or were running a quasi scam.

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#43

Post by meerita » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 8:41 PM UTC

I think the best for societies is solar roofs. Much better surface availability. Solar roads, filled with thousands of cars cannot suck energy from sun so well as houses' roofs.

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#44

Post by lyjackal » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 8:41 PM UTC

remote_phone wrote: post #4

It was a failure but I’m glad they tried it. Hopefully something like this comes to fruition and we learn more and more with every iteration. Solar roads are a great idea. Maybe it means it needs daily sweeping with electric vacuum trucks or something but if it’s producing enough electricity then it’s worth it.

I'm all for trying things out, but this idea was always pretty crazy. It sounded nice at a very superficial level. Good solutions usually solve multiple problems, and this "solution" combined some problems... Seems like a smaller trial would have been just as effective

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#45

Post by tzs » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 8:41 PM UTC

close04 wrote: post #19

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #9

This article from 4 days ago says a solar road in the Netherlands is doing well, so it seems like the French road is just a bad design? I don’t know if they are in fact different hardware: https://www.businessinsider.com/worlds-first-solar-road-turn...

The one in the Netherlands seems to be a 70m solar cycle lane. Cars will destroy a surface a lot faster than bikes. Maybe (dedicated) bike lanes would be a good place to start with this.

It's not obvious to me that cars will destroy a surface faster than bikes. Yes, cars weigh a lot more, but that weight is distributed over a larger area. The force on a given square millimeter of the surface that the vehicle is on is actually 2-4 times as high for a bike than from a car. This is why bike tires typically are inflated to 2-4 times the pressure of car tires.

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#46

Post by userbinator » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 8:42 PM UTC

French officials said the road, made of photovoltaic panels, would generate electricity to power streetlights in Tourouvre, a local town.

I don't know how reliable they are, but solar-powered streetlights are already common in some areas --- and being mounted high above on the lights themselves, the panels are far less likely to be damaged.

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#47

Post by Smithalicious » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 8:42 PM UTC

I never managed to see the advantages of having a solar road compared to just having a normal road with solar panels next to it. Or above it. Or literally anywhere else. In fact I can't think of many areas that still get direct sunlight that would make for a worse place to put solar panels than on the road...

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#48

Post by doteka » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 8:42 PM UTC

buboard wrote: post #11

Help me understand the logic behind taking a PV and stepping on it in the worst possible way, leaving dirt , rubber etc, when every PV that is exposed only to the open air needs regular cleaning / maintainance. And its being frequently under the shade of cars

I'm curious how you arrived at that conclusion? Common wisdom, at least a few years ago, was "cleaning isn't worth it".

(https://phys.org/news/2013-07-solar-panels-worth.html)

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#49

Post by api » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 8:42 PM UTC

phtrivier wrote: post #41

I can't imagine how hard it must have been, in France of all places, to try something that bold and risky and obvious to oppose beforehand. We're the country of ruthless self deprecation coupled with perfectionist universalism. I hope something was learnt here (other than learning not to do it again), and I'm absolutely confident the people who cluelessly pushed for it will go on their public careers unaffected while…

> We're the country of ruthless self deprecation coupled with perfectionist universalism.

I wonder if there traits make you good at nuclear power. Perfectionism and ruthless self criticism seem like they'd engender the kind of thorough and methodological approach that keeps reactors from getting explody.

The Russian "can't duck it, fuck it" attitude seems to have the opposite effect judging from the Geiger counter readings.

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#50

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 8:42 PM UTC

pgeorgi wrote: post #28

remote_phone wrote: post #4

It was a failure but I’m glad they tried it. Hopefully something like this comes to fruition and we learn more and more with every iteration. Solar roads are a great idea. Maybe it means it needs daily sweeping with electric vacuum trucks or something but if it’s producing enough electricity then it’s worth it.

I think putting a roof on streets (on a relatively light aluminium/carbon fiber scaffold) for the panels is less outlandish than trying to fix "solar roads" by adding maintenance vehicles (or solar roads themselves, really). It keeps away rain (which improves driving), doesn't expose the panels to the weight of tractors, has similar safety properties (the panels need to react quickly on any accident related impact an…

> but who argued against solar roads because of leaves killing the efficiency?

I had my concrete driveway pressure washed recently. It looked really good for about a week. Then leaves fell on it, and the leaves stained it brown again.

All the engineers had to do was look at flat concrete.