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The Dubai Job

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Re: The Dubai Job

#31

Post by burgerbrain »

forensic wrote: post #18
wyclif wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say you have it backward. Tactically, mistakes were made. But strategically this mission was a huge success: they eliminated their target-- the goal of the whole operation.

Considering all the details about their own operations that were leaked, I bet they wish they had spent more time to get it perfect. It's not like Israel is incapable of perfect assassinations. It's just a question of dedicating enough resources - time, money, manpower. This has not only exposed agents and caused a diplomatic mess, it has exposed operational details: - the hacking of hotels - the use of disguises and…

People saying that Mossad messed up by getting caught on camera never really made sense to me. They clearly knew they were going to be on camera, and they had to have known that that footage would be reviewed in the future. Since they knew they were going to be on camera but did it anyway, it pretty clearly was a risk they calculated and decided was an acceptable payoff. Currently it looks like nearly 30 people were directly involved, and authorities have nothing to show for it but the arrest of an accomplice or two, and month old rumors of another single arrest. They might have pictures of the people involved, but it hasn't helped them actually do anything about it.

As for political fallout... what political fallout? They got some bad press on the evening news but do you think they actually give a damn about that? Other countries sent a political message scolded them for using fake passports, and they sent a pretty clear political message: that they are willing to kill anyone they don't like, and no amount of cameras will stop them.

I really have a hard time seeing the people who planned this doing anything other than patting themselves on the back for a job well done.

Re: The Dubai Job

#32

Post by raheemm »

"Take yourselves and your bank accounts and your weapons and your forged fucking passports and get out of my country," - Lieutenant General Dhahi Khalfan Tamim, chief of the Dubai Police

Re: The Dubai Job

#33

Post by wyclif »

burgerbrain wrote: post #31
forensic wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering all the details about their own operations that were leaked, I bet they wish they had spent more time to get it perfect. It's not like Israel is incapable of perfect assassinations. It's just a question of dedicating enough resources - time, money, manpower. This has not only exposed agents and caused a diplomatic mess, it has exposed operational details: - the hacking of hotels - the use of disguises and…

People saying that Mossad messed up by getting caught on camera never really made sense to me. They clearly knew they were going to be on camera, and they had to have known that that footage would be reviewed in the future. Since they knew they were going to be on camera but did it anyway, it pretty clearly was a risk they calculated and decided was an acceptable payoff. Currently it looks like nearly 30 people were…

Oh, I totally agree-- this was the point of my earlier comment about it being tactically "good enough" but not perfect. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that they knew all about the CCTV coverage in the hotel. I also think you're spot on about the blowback on the British passports. It was all calculated risk. In general, the article underestimates the technical savvy of Mossad-- see Stuxnet.

Re: The Dubai Job

#34

Post by sophacles »

badmash69 wrote: post #30
sophacles wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the guidlines -- "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" is the short and sweet rule. I find well written pieces about things I normally don't know much about intellectually gratifying. More so, actually, than yet another "awesome vim tricks (that any reasonably experienced user already knows)" or "look at this awesome revolutionary thing in node.js (that turns out to be a standard async pattern)"…

As long as we are cherry picking text from guidelines to support our POV, here is my pick " ..If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. " This stuff has been covered on TV. May be not on the channel that you like to watch --- but it has been covered. Search BBC or CNN. From CNN.com: http://articles.cnn.com/2010-12-26/world/israel.mossad.repor... And that is why I think is topic is better suited to Reddi…

Another "cherry picked" phrase from on-topic is "That includes more than just hacking and startups". Note also that I have now quoted more of the On-topic guidelines than I have left out.

As for the TV thing -- were you sure to bitch about the topicality of the iPhone release based on this guideline? What about the "stolen" iPhone? How about anything wikileaks related? All the stuff posted here about academia? Do math papers count -- they are not actually about hacking, just about maths, frequently with no direct relation to hacking.

Re: The Dubai Job

#35

Post by patrickgzill »

raheemm wrote: post #32

"Take yourselves and your bank accounts and your weapons and your forged fucking passports and get out of my country," - Lieutenant General Dhahi Khalfan Tamim, chief of the Dubai Police

Why did they not at the least, confiscate the weapons, bank accounts, and forged passports?

Re: The Dubai Job

#36

Post by badmash69 »

sophacles wrote: post #34
badmash69 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as we are cherry picking text from guidelines to support our POV, here is my pick " ..If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. " This stuff has been covered on TV. May be not on the channel that you like to watch --- but it has been covered. Search BBC or CNN. From CNN.com: http://articles.cnn.com/2010-12-26/world/israel.mossad.repor... And that is why I think is topic is better suited to Reddi…

Another "cherry picked" phrase from on-topic is "That includes more than just hacking and startups". Note also that I have now quoted more of the On-topic guidelines than I have left out. As for the TV thing -- were you sure to bitch about the topicality of the iPhone release based on this guideline? What about the "stolen" iPhone? How about anything wikileaks related? All the stuff posted here about academia? Do mat…

"bitch" -- no never. I only express my disagreement.

Nobody posted "stolen" iPhone story here 6 months after the fact. The Dubai news story has been covered on TV and is very old. More cherry picked quote from the guidelines -- "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports ...."

You are right , hacking is not just about node.js. Personally speaking, I love articles from Academia , and maths , even when they are not related to programming languages.

This article is a stale crime/politics/current affairs type of story that does not belong here.

Re: The Dubai Job

#37

Post by mih »

doron wrote: post #22
tome wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The structural devestation has certainly been significantly less than many other devestations I could name which are happening contemperaneously. However, I can't speak for the psychological (and other forms) of devestation that may be happening in Ashdod and Sderot. I would like to know more about that.

The constant trickle of rockets creates a very poor incentive for any economic development, leaving an already troubled region in a spiraling economic downturn and brain drain for those who are able to leave. Other effects will surely be realized as time goes by, the constant disruption of the education system in the entire region comes to mind.

Are we speaking about the Israeli or the Palestinian side of the border? On one side economic development maybe suppressed, but across the border people struggle for the basic necessities of life. As everyone knows, there is no easy solution to this except for both parties to redress their mistakes. As long as there is oppression and no justice, both will be the losers.

Re: The Dubai Job

#38

Post by smcl »

patrickgzill wrote: post #35
raheemm wrote: post #32

"Take yourselves and your bank accounts and your weapons and your forged fucking passports and get out of my country," - Lieutenant General Dhahi Khalfan Tamim, chief of the Dubai Police

Why did they not at the least, confiscate the weapons, bank accounts, and forged passports?

Have a look at the article, the quote in question was said on the phone to some higher-up in Hamas after it was discovered they were operating undercover doing shady business in Dubai

Re: The Dubai Job

#39

Post by varjag »

wyclif wrote: post #33
burgerbrain wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People saying that Mossad messed up by getting caught on camera never really made sense to me. They clearly knew they were going to be on camera, and they had to have known that that footage would be reviewed in the future. Since they knew they were going to be on camera but did it anyway, it pretty clearly was a risk they calculated and decided was an acceptable payoff. Currently it looks like nearly 30 people were…

Oh, I totally agree-- this was the point of my earlier comment about it being tactically "good enough" but not perfect. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that they knew all about the CCTV coverage in the hotel. I also think you're spot on about the blowback on the British passports. It was all calculated risk. In general, the article underestimates the technical savvy of Mossad-- see Stuxnet.

Going to take a dive here from Mossad fanboys, but Stuxnet can just as well (if not more likely) be a U.S. product, precisely due to its technical sophistication.

Re: The Dubai Job

#40

Post by SoftwareMaven »

varjag wrote: post #39
wyclif wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I totally agree-- this was the point of my earlier comment about it being tactically "good enough" but not perfect. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that they knew all about the CCTV coverage in the hotel. I also think you're spot on about the blowback on the British passports. It was all calculated risk. In general, the article underestimates the technical savvy of Mossad-- see Stuxnet.

Going to take a dive here from Mossad fanboys, but Stuxnet can just as well (if not more likely) be a U.S. product, precisely due to its technical sophistication.

More likely a combination of both: Mossad for the details of what is inside Iran's program and deploying the worm, and the US for the technical skills to build it.
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