US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In • Hacker News Board

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#141

Post by Terretta » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

anchpop wrote: post #44

rolltiide wrote: post #37

Everytime I post about "green bubble" discrimination on hackernews, people act so surprised just like this father on twitter, and then talk about how vapid and fake people must be to care about that You know what people - iphone users - actually say when there isn't mixed company? "Android users, especially self-identified ones, lack social cues in many areas" It goes way beyond an android user letting people know ab…

Android has about 40% market share in the US [0], are you claiming that 40% of the us are unable to identify social cues? I have a hard time believing that this isn't just classism. Most of my friends from poorer areas, especially the ones who grew up without access to the internet, have an Android. And my group chats with them work pretty well since android supports the open standard RCS [0]: https://gs.statcounter.…

When you say 40% market share, you mean by count of handsets?

Headcount is not “market”, market is dollars to spend.

When comparing Android and iPhone in the US, you need to compare % of wealth, or of disposable income, or some closer indicator of ‘market’ than head count.

Wallet count, not head count.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#142

Post by newnewpdro » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 10:54 PM UTC

I don't see how this proves tangible lock-in. Teens can be brutally arbitrary when it comes to finding ways to exclude others or simply manufacture cliques to exert dominance/influence over the lives of others.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#143

Post by vetinari » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 10:59 PM UTC

alanbernstein wrote: post #94

Barrin92 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm entirely serious. I have no idea what it even means for android to intrude on me in this context. I know what an intrusive app is, I don't know what an intrusive operating system is.

Android is one arm of Google's data collection apparatus. Using an Android device allows Google to do this: https://www.google.com/maps/timeline?pb . Is this intrusive?

You know, that you can turn off location history, right? In fact, it is a checkbox when you set up a new Android device.

And technically, it is not Android the OS that is doing this. It is Google Play framework.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#144

Post by sodosopa » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 11:17 PM UTC

I don't blame them. If you're in the ecosystem, with an iPad or a Macbook you have iMessage there too without installing a Facebook or any other intrusive or untrustworthy apps.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#145

Post by sodosopa » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 11:20 PM UTC

dajohnson89 wrote: post #34

pcmoney wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is 100% a Facebook product. It is FB. I 100% guarantee all data mined from your WhatsApp account is linked either to your FB account or your shadow FB account if you never signed up. Sure maybe the "experience" hasn't changed from a UI standpoint but FB is weakening WhatsApp's end to end encryption and mining your conversations so under the hood the experience is radically different. There is a reason the founders…

is there any evidence of WhatsApp conversations being monitored?

would you trust Facebook after the many ways they've sold your data?

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#146

Post by dunnevens » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 11:21 PM UTC

davidy123 wrote: post #11

This has been going on for decades with MS Office. I recently proposed to an elderly acquaintance that they get a Chromebook because a full Windows installation was causing them so much trouble, but they couldn't because their peers edited one specific document using MS Word and for some reason it caused trouble when people edited it online. And that's just at the individual level, MS Office lock-in is a fact for so…

I'm sure you already tried this, but did the Word app for Android work for the edited document? With Chrome OS support for Android apps, that might a solution for your acquaintance.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#147

Post by saagarjha » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 11:29 PM UTC

Terretta wrote: post #135

asclepi wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's subjective, but your observations are valid in many scenarios. The point I want to make is that Messages is not preventing them from including Android users because they don't have an iPhone, which is a general misunderstanding that I often observe when talking with Android users who use Whatsapp or similar and is also recurring here. If the Android user gets locked out, it's because a human decided to, not be…

> teens attach a lot more weight to the blue/green than they should Have you looked at parental controls for carriers? Chats with green messages are in the log, chats with blue messages are not. Depending how much they like their parents reading their messages, maybe teens aren’t attaching enough weight.

Parental controls: teaching teenagers all over the country the value of end-to-end encryption.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#148

Post by saagarjha » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 11:32 PM UTC

asclepi wrote: post #112

tkxxx7 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it will color the bubble green. And that's why they get locked out. You seem to be attaching too much significance to the color. It really is because the experience sucks over SMS. The annoyance with the green color is just a symbol of that frustration. I implore you, to try having a meaningful group chat with a mix of users. Having just one Android user instantly degrades the experience for everyone involved.…

> You seem to be attaching too much significance to the color. I'm not. That is what the Twitter OP indicated as the actual reason. He was left out " specifically because he was on Android and turned the thread green" (sic). Or in the student's own words: "we would start a new group chat, and the group would realize I was the reason it was green, and they would start another group chat without me". Nowhere is mention…

I feel that teenagers aren't as different from adults are you think they are, although they might be more likely to consolidate their frustrations with something pithy like "bubble color".

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#149

Post by saagarjha » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 11:33 PM UTC

throw0101a wrote: post #70

Lock-in doesn't last forever: just ask ICQ, MSN, and BBM. My sister used all of those things as she was growing up in the 2000s and 2010s. The flavour-of-the-day is now iMessage. She sometimes complains that I'm not on the system (supposedly handy to group chat with our mom), but I can't be bothered to follow the latest fad. We'll see how long that lasts. Maybe at some point the telcos and phone makers will eventuall…

RCS isn't end-to-end encrypted, unfortunately :(

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#150

Post by drusepth » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 11:35 PM UTC

alanbernstein wrote: post #94

Barrin92 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm entirely serious. I have no idea what it even means for android to intrude on me in this context. I know what an intrusive app is, I don't know what an intrusive operating system is.

Android is one arm of Google's data collection apparatus. Using an Android device allows Google to do this: https://www.google.com/maps/timeline?pb . Is this intrusive?

Uh, that's a completely optional feature. I've intentionally had it on for over 3 years now, and it's one of the first things I turn on when I get a new phone.

You can also delete your location history data at any time.