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Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

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Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#321
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big, ostensibly neutral, communications monopolies need their censorship practices heavily regulated. People with private blogs needs to be absolutely free to control commenting however they would like. I believe that we can respect both of these positions easily, 99% of the time, with our court systems deciding on some of the grey in the middle.

Twitter doesn't even remotely have a monopoly on political communications. What counts as a "private" blog? That seems like an arbitrary distinction.

Seems like a very pertinent distinction to modern democracy / society.

Unlike in the 1800 when everyone could just go the the town square or publish their own pamphlet and have almost equal reach, today most discussion happens in 2-3 outlets: Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, etc.

Whether those started as private companies, whether those are not public goods, etc, should be irrelevant. They have de facto captured a big chunk of the conversation that shapes the public opinion.

I'd argue the same was true for TV and newspapers in the 1900-2000 -- they had a disproportionate power of shaping public opinion, and a monopoly of control on it. That was bad -- and it was already said that "he who controls the mass media, controls democracy". Even if people still had the "first amendment right" to open their own newspaper (as if that's practical), or whatever.

But at the time, at least, newspapers and tv stations had limited pages and run time, expensive production costs, and it was at least reasonable that they couldn't include everybody's voice.

Today, services like Twitter, Facebook, etc, not only have small marginal costs for including another voice, but they encourage and actively want to add more (all) people in their platform. So there's no excuse (from that point) of censoring people.

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#322

Unaccountable censorship of expression by our main communication providers is incompatible with Democracy. Communication is often a natural monopoly, and you can't just "start a competitor" to Twitter and have the market fix the problem (see gab.ai). If we're going to have censorship on the big platforms (Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc.) and backbone providers (ISPs, Cloudfront), us normal human beings need…

I’m confused. What technology did twitter replace? Oh it didn’t? This is completely new, the ability to communicate to this many people at once? Okay so what ancient rights are being trampled exactly? If anything we probably need to be censoring people on Twitter right now as it doesn’t seem to convince anyone of anything other than that the people on the other-side of their argument are sub-human. Edit: Also, it alw…

>I’m confused. What technology did twitter replace? Oh it didn’t? This is completely new, the ability to communicate to this many people at once? Okay so what ancient rights are being trampled exactly?

What bizarro ideas people have.

Rights exist outside of technologies, technologies, media, etc are just different spaces to apply them.

Twitter, for example, can't treat people of color differently, just because it's a "new technology" and "thus" they should not have any expectation of equality there.

They have the right to be treated as equals, regardless of whether it's a new technology that does the treatment or an old one.

(Note also that what century/decade old laws based on a 3 centuries old constitution that's held as some holy scripture say, are not the be all, end all, and are not necessarily the same thing as what should be right in 2019. I say this cause Americans have the tendency to view everything under this lens, as if they can't possibly conceive of any improvements there, or as if that's even relevant to a global discussion).

>Also, it always riles me up when someone refers to social media as a “main communication” provider. What fraction of the population gets its political discourse off of Twitter?

A large enough for it to be actively targeted by political figures, political campaign advertising, and polling companies (heck, even foreign agents), and a large enough for it to have a big share in shaping public opinion.

So there's that.

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#323
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do you feel about blog platforms or other service providers that allow posting user-supplied comments on their platform? Should companies and non-profits all be required be to expend resources to keep your hateful comments available to the world? How do we determine what's spam? What's advertising? What's XSS? You have a first amendment right to type any of these things into an input box. Does that mean the or…

> So how do you feel about blog platforms or other service providers that allow posting user-supplied comments on their platform? Should companies and non-profits all be required be to expend resources to keep your hateful comments available to the world? Yes. And "hateful" is a weasel world, assuming in advanced what the comments that would get censored are. The comments could also be unpleasant but not hateful, unp…

And some if it is plain hateful. Distasteful, and inflammatory. [1]

Not all words need to be respected. Sometimes people need help, and sometimes they ask for it in subliminal ways.

And of course it's a provincial US issue. The entire internet as we know it cannot exist without provincial US law holding it together, and a provincial US economy to keep it online. We own the internet. We own Microsoft. We own Android. We own Google and Apple and Facebook and Twitter and everyone else who matters. There are competitors in these fields, but they're not concentrated enough in any other nation to make a difference. If America fell off Earth tomorrow the internet and all the technology that connects to it would be useless. Full stop.

And that should be a good thing. Healthy for your point. You don't want the internet governed on the world stage, especially if you're American.

Grab your soap box and try that "easing of restrictions on freedom of speech on a global scope" bullshit in China. Even Chinese citizens will laugh at you. They don't care about their freedoms nearly as much as you do.

[1] https://cdn.hillreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/gab-...

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#324
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter doesn't even remotely have a monopoly on political communications. What counts as a "private" blog? That seems like an arbitrary distinction.

Seems like a very pertinent distinction to modern democracy / society. Unlike in the 1800 when everyone could just go the the town square or publish their own pamphlet and have almost equal reach, today most discussion happens in 2-3 outlets: Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, etc. Whether those started as private companies, whether those are not public goods, etc, should be irrelevant. They have de facto captured a big chu…

There are a lot more than 2-3 outlets some of which have completely different and less restrictive acceptable use policies. For example I understand Reddit is huge, although I don't use it myself.

And there's always email.

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how do you feel about blog platforms or other service providers that allow posting user-supplied comments on their platform? Should companies and non-profits all be required be to expend resources to keep your hateful comments available to the world? Yes. And "hateful" is a weasel world, assuming in advanced what the comments that would get censored are. The comments could also be unpleasant but not hateful, unp…

And some if it is plain hateful. Distasteful, and inflammatory. [1] Not all words need to be respected. Sometimes people need help, and sometimes they ask for it in subliminal ways. And of course it's a provincial US issue. The entire internet as we know it cannot exist without provincial US law holding it together, and a provincial US economy to keep it online. We own the internet. We own Microsoft. We own Android.…

>And some if it is plain hateful. Distasteful, and inflammatory. [1]

Saying what's "distasteful" is about arbiters of taste, and we shouldn't allow that. John Waters was "distateful" at some point, Rock music was, famous painters were, Henry Miller was, tons of movies, and tons of other things besides. Inflammatory stuff, doxing, etc, should be punishable under common law (libel, privacy laws, etc). Hate on the other hand is one of the basic human sentiments. Why censor it altogether? Besides, usually the case is that some hate is OK (if it's towards our enemies) but other hate is bad (if it's aimed towards our side). Again, arbiters of hate, like arbiters of taste.

>And of course it's a provincial US issue. The entire internet as we know it cannot exist without provincial US law holding it together, and a provincial US economy to keep it online.

Given the state of the modern internet, I'm not sure if that's for the better.

I'd take an old-style, CERN-invented internet back, any day of the week.

>We own Microsoft. We own Android. We own Google and Apple and Facebook and Twitter and everyone else who matters.

You say that as if it's a good thing.

>Grab your soap box and try that "easing of restrictions on freedom of speech on a global scope" bullshit in China. Even Chinese citizens will laugh at you. They don't care about their freedoms nearly as much as you do.

Well, if they don't, then I don't care about their freedoms either. I care about my freedoms, and of those countries that do care about their freedoms.

I don't want to "bring democracy" to places that don't want it (resource-grab style). I want to enjoy democracy (and fuller than today's theater of it) in places that do want it.

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#326
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a very pertinent distinction to modern democracy / society. Unlike in the 1800 when everyone could just go the the town square or publish their own pamphlet and have almost equal reach, today most discussion happens in 2-3 outlets: Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, etc. Whether those started as private companies, whether those are not public goods, etc, should be irrelevant. They have de facto captured a big chu…

There are a lot more than 2-3 outlets some of which have completely different and less restrictive acceptable use policies. For example I understand Reddit is huge, although I don't use it myself. And there's always email.

>There are a lot more than 2-3 outlets some of which have completely different and less restrictive acceptable use policies. For example I understand Reddit is huge, although I don't use it myself.

That's mostly a reason why Reddit (and others) should also be included in the list.

But even if we don't have all outlets, enforcing freedom of speech to say, the top-3 by users, is good enough for a start...

>And there's always email.

Yes, just like one is always free to think what they want inside their head, or tell it like it is, within their home.

I'm not talking about that, nor care about that "freedom".

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#327
post #103
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s wealth and maybe being from a race and sex that generally isn’t raked over the coals for simply being black or a women? White male politicians don’t get much flak for being white or male. Black women politician would get so much for both her race and gender. As a women I’d never want to be in the public eye for this reason.

>White male politicians don’t get much flak for being white or male. Obviously you've never had an account on Twitter

This is a new account on HN, but the downvotes are surprising, seeing as most people here have indeed used Twitter before.

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not, but raising yourself above the line of visibility for public office (or in fact, any kind of fame) more or less automatically comes with its share of negatives. That doesn't justify the toxic behavior at all, it is just a statement about reality. And the rude tweets are the lowest form of that, at the higher levels it turns into physical assault and sometimes even murder attempts and the occasional ac…

Doesn't mean Twitter needs to host it. HN has its own guidelines. I can't come here insulting you. So while it's perfectly fine to say someone can say something, Twitter has every right to decide that it won't host it. Suggesting otherwise is, in many ways, censorship. And I wouldn't want an HN that wasn't allowed to moderate its discussion.

I'm not suggesting that Twitter needs to host it, on the contrary, I think they're a bit late in their response.

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#329

Counterpoint: you used Twitter to publish aggressively misogynist language, and by leaving it up, you continued to distribute hateful material. If Twitter is going to police hate speech, this the right kind of content, and "it was a while ago" is not really a defense when you're still distributing that content. People often play the "it's not misogynist speech" game, but the first thing you did was to dismiss her bas…

> "it was a while ago" is not really a defense when you're still distributing that content. I think you're missing the point here. It was published 9 years ago. He didn't continue "distributing" it, he published it once and Twitter distributed it for 9 years. The point, as I understand it, is that Twitter passively agreed that the tweet was just fine for their platform for 9 years. Then, after doing so, their standar…

It wasn't an attack on her ideas. It was an ad hominem attack: he called her a gender-coded name that reduces her to a piece of anatomy in a starkly vulgar way. People do this to women all the time, and they don't do it to men in the same way. You don't have to believe this for it to be true.

And yes, he continued to distribute it. He put it in a content-distribution platform and left it there, despite the ability to take it down at any time. The fact that he never got called out for it before is not very persuasive to me, any more than "but I've been an asshole for years, it's not fair to call me out for it today."

OP is probably not a terrible person, but this article is not what taking responsibility for your past bad behavior looks like.

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want a Ministry of Truth filtering what I'm allowed to hear. In a functional democracy, education and robust debate are supposed to be the defenses against misinformation. Most western democracies long since scrapped proper education because it's easier to win the support of the population with propaganda^H public relations than it is to make a reasoned argument.

Unfortunately looks to me that if you do not have a Ministry of Truth, you end up with a society where private actors pump people with soma[1]. Personally, I am willing to accept a restricted version of Ministry of Truth to avoid that outcome. [1]See Huxley, Brave new world.

IIRC, Soma was voluntary, a recreational drug akin to marijuana. So I'd err significantly on that side.
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