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Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

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Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#231

Post by aianus »

computerex wrote: post #179
SannTek wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for you comment, and we certainly respect your opinion. Being conscious of the impact of our device on groups that have been historically target by police is something that is on our mind a lot. I think it is important to recognize that the way drug impaired driving is tackled today is very subjective. Police administer an field sobriety test that involves walking in a straight line, standing on one foot, and…

Have you guys actually established a relationship between presence of THC and actual driving impairment? I doubt it. Seems to me that you guys are just out to make a quick buck and the way you are framing the rhetoric is just a nice story. At what levels of THC concentrations is driving empirically impaired and is this measurement consistent across everyone? What evidence do you have to support that THC impairs drivi…

> At what levels of THC concentrations is driving empirically impaired and is this measurement consistent across everyone? What evidence do you have to support that THC impairs driving?

The Government of Canada has already legislated [0] that THC impairs driving and that the per-se limit is 2ng of THC per ml of blood. I'm certain this YC company had nothing to do with lobbying for that legislation and that it would have been passed with or without them.

Surely if there is someone to blame for setting nonsensical limits, you should blame the government and the hysterical voters who elect them.

[0] https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/sidl-rlcfa/qa2-qr2.html

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#232

Post by dahfizz »

There is some serious negativity in these comments that I don't understand. I for one think that there is a strong need for a weed breathalyzer, and I encourage you in your efforts.

This is a fundamental and necessary part of the legalization of weed. Some people here are worried about the efficacy of such a device and the motives of partied involved - and rightly so. But consider for a moment: the cops don't need to use any sort of test or device in order to arrest you if they suspect you of smoking today. They throw you in a jail cell and let the lab do your blood work in a couple months. And that process is very imprecise! You could have used cannabis weeks ago, then driven totally sober, but it would still show up in your blood tests.

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#233

Post by gburdell3 »

cbthrowaway wrote: post #176

I've been a daily cannabis user for over a decade. I have a prescription for this, like millions of others with prescriptions for psychoactive medications without driving limitations. Would you send someone to prison for driving because they took their Adderall that morning? Cannabis is not like alcohol in regard to impairment of motor function and decision-making under the influence. Surely the same concentrations o…

>Cannabis is not like alcohol in regard to impairment of motor function and decision-making under the influence.

As someone has been high a few times before, I would most definitely not agree with this

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#234

Post by hooande »

sixstringtheory wrote: post #209

Just the fact that you will be profiting off of this perceived issue, means you have some interest in the root causes of impaired driving remaining unsolved. Reading statements like this just tells me you have dollar signs in your eyes: > we're imagining a world where there are one of our devices in every police car in North America Nowhere did I see a sentiment akin to this: > we're imagining a world where people ac…

do the companies who currently make alcohol breathalyzers donate profits to charity? and do you question their motives as well?

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#235

Post by root_axis »

davidw wrote: post #228
root_axis wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does smoking marijuana impair driving skills though? The assumption is yes... but is that actually the case? Maybe the kid in the story you linked crashed due to his speeding to reach home by curfew and not because he smoked marijuana that night.

It would make sense that it does, at some level of consumption, just as with anything else that messes with your brain, including alcohol, prescription drugs, lack of sleep and so on.

What appears intuitively true is not always so. Certainly, anything at "some level of consumption" would be an impairment, but I'm not sure it's established that marijuana impairs driving ability under typical usage scenarios.

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#236

Post by jakelazaroff »

dahfizz wrote: post #224
sixstringtheory wrote: post #209

Just the fact that you will be profiting off of this perceived issue, means you have some interest in the root causes of impaired driving remaining unsolved. Reading statements like this just tells me you have dollar signs in your eyes: > we're imagining a world where there are one of our devices in every police car in North America Nowhere did I see a sentiment akin to this: > we're imagining a world where people ac…

I think comments like this are incredibly harmful. There is a strong need for this device, and this person is working to fill the need. To also hoist the responsibility of fixing society's fundamental issues and ask him/her to give up the revenue (not just profit) that they earns is absurd. I would say that this person is doing more than their fair share.

Doing more than their fair share of what? It looks like they recognized an issue facing society and chose to exploit the problem for money rather than actually help fix the it. The need for this device is coming from the police-industrial complex, not society at large.

The war on drugs has been incredibly damaging in the U.S., and I absolutely do not want the police to have even more tools to wage it.

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#237

Post by dfsegoat »

dahfizz wrote: post #224
sixstringtheory wrote: post #209

Just the fact that you will be profiting off of this perceived issue, means you have some interest in the root causes of impaired driving remaining unsolved. Reading statements like this just tells me you have dollar signs in your eyes: > we're imagining a world where there are one of our devices in every police car in North America Nowhere did I see a sentiment akin to this: > we're imagining a world where people ac…

I think comments like this are incredibly harmful. There is a strong need for this device, and this person is working to fill the need. To also hoist the responsibility of fixing society's fundamental issues and ask him/her to give up the revenue (not just profit) that they earns is absurd. I would say that this person is doing more than their fair share.

I initially wanted to argue the "Strong need for this device" premise that you layed out, because last I checked the dose-response research re: thc and driving impairment hadn't really been done.

However when I did the research on PubMed, there are some systematic reviews which indicate things like the following [1]:

"Nearly two thirds of US trauma center admissions are due to motor vehicle accidents (MVAs), with almost 60% of such patients testing positive for drugs or alcohol."

They conclude with:

"Consuming cannabis before driving, with or without alcohol, is a common occurrence that produces substantial morbidity and mortality on the roadway. Research is needed to further define cannabis’ effects on driving performance and to provide the scientific basis for laws to improve road safety."

[1] - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3836260/

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#238

Post by dahfizz »

abstractbarista wrote: post #227

I think this is really cool. I always wondered though, the way we correlate numbers to driving ability seems sketchy. Some people take multiple large dabs of cannabis concentrate - and they're barely feeling it. This is because they basically do this all day every day. Someone like that would fail this test, despite their motor skills remaining near baseline. It's clearly different for alcohol, because it directly in…

> So ultimately I would like a push to improve roadside driving ability testing, regardless of suspected substance use. This covers sleepiness, dehydration, etc.

I definitely agree with you there. The difficulty is making it sufficiently objective.

A cop has every incentive to arrest you, so we need to have a degree of empiricism to the test so that cops can't use it to arrest anyone they want.

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#239

Post by SannTek »

nlh wrote: post #168

Interesting idea (congrats on launching) and interesting discussion here. Reading this thread has popped up some questions in my mind and I'm curious to hear thoughts: Why do we (aka society aka the police) test for specific substance quantities at all? Really, I think, what we care about is whether someone is able to competently perform the task of driving at a given moment. If you are unable to perform that task, t…

Excellent point. The best solution to impaired driving would be a 100% accurate impairment test. The problem comes with designing and implementing such a test.

Let's start with what they have today, the standard field sobriety test. It is a pretty good test of impairment (with accuracy range between %75 to 90% depending on the study). However, there are several problems with the SFST. First of all, it requires police officers to be well trained and exercise their judgement roadside. This introduces the possibility for bias and the costs of training can sometimes be prohibitive. Secondly, the SFST cannot be administered in all conditions. A snowy day is a really bad time to be impaired, but also really difficult conditions for running a SFST.

The alternative is some kind of device that could detect the same (or different) markers of impairment as the SFST. The problem is making a device that is as accurate as the SFST, is portable, and easy to use is very difficult. If you look at attempts to date (like the Ocular DAX), these device tend to be really unwieldy and not even as accurate as the SFST. It seems like a technology that needs a little more time (maybe a decade?).

Overall though, definitely an avenue to explore.

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#240

Post by davidw »

root_axis wrote: post #235
davidw wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would make sense that it does, at some level of consumption, just as with anything else that messes with your brain, including alcohol, prescription drugs, lack of sleep and so on.

What appears intuitively true is not always so. Certainly, anything at "some level of consumption" would be an impairment, but I'm not sure it's established that marijuana impairs driving ability under typical usage scenarios.

Given how dangerous automobiles are even for non-impaired people, I'd rather err on the side of caution, especially given that consuming is not something people need to do.
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