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Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

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Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#201

Post by ehnto »

vngzs wrote: post #77
chadash wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What’s keeping you in check? It's going to be fairly easy to test this. You take one group of people who haven't smoked in the last few hours and you test them. Make sure it doesn't go off. You take another group who have smoked (I'm sure plenty of college students would be happy to sign up for this trial) and you test them, make sure it does go off. It's pretty simple. It's a machine with an empirical number, so y…

Even alcohol breathalyzers are regularly miscalibrated or defective and found to produce false positives. Legal pressure from manufacturers keeps this quiet. https://www.zdnet.com/article/draeger-breathalyzer-breath-te...

That is why many states follow a positive breathalyzer test with a blood test. In my state, you can refuse them both, but you lose your license temporarily for doing so. I think that's fair. I understand some are skeptical about giving blood to the police, but if you can't prove you're not drunk or high after a positive reading on a less accurate device, then you aren't allowed on the road. The risk is too great for everyone else.

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#202

Post by corndoge »

joshgachnang wrote: post #156
rlt wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that breathalyzers give you a nice simple, relatively objective number to point at, but shouldn't we be testing for actual impairment rather than the presence of chemicals which may or may not be an indicator of impairment?

The officer should still have discretion here to let someone go if they don't feel the person is impaired. But giving them a number means they can't use that discretion the opposite way, e.g. arresting someone because "they seem like they're driving high". I imagine that kind of discretion would disproportionately affect minorities, so I see this as a win.

"You breathalyzed positive, but you don't seem too messed up to drive to me. Drive safe."

Said no officer ever

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#204

Post by ryanmercer »

deckar01 wrote: post #187
chadash wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in an ideal world we would do that. But by the time we come up with a perfect test that can be done roadside by police to determine driving impairment, that has very few false positives and holds up in court, we'll most likely have self driving cars and this won't be an issue anyway. I understand that everyone reacts differently to different drugs. Dale Earnhardt can probably be a little tipsy and still drive be…

Lots of behaviors impair your driving ability. A study found that being dehydrated caused the same number of driving errors as being drunk [0]. I'm sure it would be easy to make a field sobriety test for blood water content, but they don't, because safety isn't the real reason these laws get made. It's just public pressure to enforce moral values. [0]: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11547199/Not-dr...

>Lots of behaviors impair your driving ability. A study found that being dehydrated caused the same number of driving errors as being drunk [0].

On June 12th Colorado alone surpassed 1 billion dollars in legal marijuana sales [1]

Let's be overly optimistic and assume an average customer in Colorado has spent $5,000 that means you have 200,000 customers. That's 200,000 people potentially driving while high.

How many people, of legal driving age, are dehydrated to the point of intoxication in/visiting Colorado during that time period? I'm guessing less than a thousand, probably less than 100.

[1](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/10/colorado-cannabis-sales-hit-...)

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#205

Post by ehnto »

chadash wrote: post #154
rlt wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that breathalyzers give you a nice simple, relatively objective number to point at, but shouldn't we be testing for actual impairment rather than the presence of chemicals which may or may not be an indicator of impairment?

Yes, in an ideal world we would do that. But by the time we come up with a perfect test that can be done roadside by police to determine driving impairment, that has very few false positives and holds up in court, we'll most likely have self driving cars and this won't be an issue anyway. I understand that everyone reacts differently to different drugs. Dale Earnhardt can probably be a little tipsy and still drive be…

What are the chances that as you mention Dale, and I Google to find out who he is, that he would have hit the news having just survived a plane crash hours ago.

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#206

Post by osd »

ycombonator wrote: post #181

Can’t wait for this device. My daughter is breathing the contaminated air from HVAC in my condo complex from all the potheads that live in the building. Great job guys looking forward to buying this and have the property management screen suspects.

I'm sure this is just a troll post but wouldn't anyone your property management "caught" using this device simply say they used off the premises and that would be the end of it?

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#207

Post by SannTek »

cbthrowaway wrote: post #176

I've been a daily cannabis user for over a decade. I have a prescription for this, like millions of others with prescriptions for psychoactive medications without driving limitations. Would you send someone to prison for driving because they took their Adderall that morning? Cannabis is not like alcohol in regard to impairment of motor function and decision-making under the influence. Surely the same concentrations o…

Thank you for your feedback. It is really valuable to get the perspective of a frequent cannabis user. Cannabis tolerance is definitely a huge factor in determining whether or not someone is impaired. As a daily user, I am sure you are fine to drive after having used cannabis (although this is not legal advice :) ). However, people forget that there are significant tolerance effects for alcohol as well. There are people who can blow a 0.15% (well over the legal limit of 0.08%) and not exhibit any impairment symptoms. The key is finding a limit that allows police to identify actually impaired drivers while giving those with tolerance enough leeway to avoid being falsely charged. The scariest thing for frequent users is the blood legal limits being proposed in Canada and across the US, give that blood can have detectable levels of cannabis up to a week after abstinence. That is why one of our big focuses is finding a replacement for blood testing.

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#208

Post by chadash »

deckar01 wrote: post #187
chadash wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in an ideal world we would do that. But by the time we come up with a perfect test that can be done roadside by police to determine driving impairment, that has very few false positives and holds up in court, we'll most likely have self driving cars and this won't be an issue anyway. I understand that everyone reacts differently to different drugs. Dale Earnhardt can probably be a little tipsy and still drive be…

Lots of behaviors impair your driving ability. A study found that being dehydrated caused the same number of driving errors as being drunk [0]. I'm sure it would be easy to make a field sobriety test for blood water content, but they don't, because safety isn't the real reason these laws get made. It's just public pressure to enforce moral values. [0]: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11547199/Not-dr...

The article you cite says:

> "To put our results into perspective, the levels of driver errors we found are of a similar magnitude to those found in people with a blood alcohol content of 0.08%"

This is just comparing against the lower limit of what we legally allow. Clearly, many drunk drivers are far drunker than this.

But in any case, I don't think it's "just public pressure to enforce moral values". You can't legally drive on Ambien, but this is a prescribed drug that I don't think people have a moral issue with.

While I think the dehydration example above is probably a stretch since it's not really as bad as alcohol, there are other things that are. I'm pretty sure driving with lack of sleep is pretty bad. But it's just not practical to test for it as far as I know.

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#209

Post by sixstringtheory »

Just the fact that you will be profiting off of this perceived issue, means you have some interest in the root causes of impaired driving remaining unsolved. Reading statements like this just tells me you have dollar signs in your eyes:

> we're imagining a world where there are one of our devices in every police car in North America

Nowhere did I see a sentiment akin to this:

> we're imagining a world where people act more responsibly, driving deaths are reduced, etc

I think it would go a long way towards establishing more credibility and goodwill on your part if you pledged a not-insignificant % of revenue (not just profit) towards education, mental health and/or civil rights efforts. At the end of the day, it is all citizens' tax dollars that will be used to pay you, so you should do the right thing and make those dollars work for them.

You should show that you're actually using this as a step towards eradicating the root cause, not just profiting off of the perceived problem. Probably the best way for something like this to show it has helped society is if it ultimately obviates its own raison d'être, because the problem has been solved and thus the need for your palliative has vanished.

It's like a doctor prescribing opiates vs solving the underlying issue of a patient's pain, or psychiatric patients hooked on antidepressants. I'm sure there were plenty of execs dreaming of every pharmacy stocked with Oxy. These things may be helpful, but only as a step towards solving the underlying issue. When they become the end goal, people get hurt.

Re: Launch HN: SannTek (YC S19) – Breathalyzer for Cannabis

#210

Post by cbthrowaway »

kazinator wrote: post #178
cbthrowaway wrote: post #176

I've been a daily cannabis user for over a decade. I have a prescription for this, like millions of others with prescriptions for psychoactive medications without driving limitations. Would you send someone to prison for driving because they took their Adderall that morning? Cannabis is not like alcohol in regard to impairment of motor function and decision-making under the influence. Surely the same concentrations o…

> I have a prescription for this. Let's see that ... oh, come now, you do not have a family doctor named Robert N. Marley!

Cannabis has been medically prescribed in CO for nearly 20 years. As of this year, autism spectrum disorders are a disabling medical condition qualifying for medical use, joining PTSD, seizures, cancer, glaucoma, AIDS, severe pain, and others.

https://www.cell.com/pb-assets/journals/trends/molecular-med... draws similar conclusions scientifically rather than anecdotally -

"Currently, science does not support the development of cannabinoid limits in motor vehicles drivers per se because of the many factors influencing concentration–effect relation-ships."

"There is no one blood or oral fluid concentration that can differentiate impaired and not impaired."

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