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US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

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Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#101

Post by damnyou »

asclepi wrote: post #91
damnyou wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kids could just be inclusive and switch to Telegram or WhatsApp or even Messenger. But the kids want to discriminate — humans, particularly Americans, thrive on excluding other people. the kids are just imitating the patterns they pick up from adults.

That's not how it works. These kids didn't create the stigma for the green bubble. Popular culture did, big-money TV, movie and music productions did, and teens are the most susceptible. Try finding a recent US-produced music video or hit movie/TV series that shows a green bubble (or Android for that matter, as it still has a higher market share).

Yes, as I said, the kids are just picking up patterns from adults.

Ultimately this is a larger societal problem of exclusion. America has taken it to its extreme, with racial segregation, redlining and the prison industrial complex. This iMessage nonsense is just a small and relatively benign symptom of the fundamental problem with America.

As a left-libertarian who believes in inclusion, I'm sure not going to encourage this with my own kids.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#102

Post by damnyou »

givinguflac wrote: post #74
damnyou wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are forced to buy apps from Apple if you want to use iMessage. Forced to use Apple's crappy voice software. Forced to use Apple's crappy TV box if you want to mirror your screen.

you aren't forced to use their voice software, and the major TV brands all have airplay built in now so you don't even need Apple TV... But yeah iMessage is on iOS though I don't see how you must buy apps to use it??

What button do I hold down on an iPhone to activate Google Assistant from the home screen?

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#103

Post by damnyou »

piker wrote: post #25
damnyou wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kids could just be inclusive and switch to Telegram or WhatsApp or even Messenger. But the kids want to discriminate — humans, particularly Americans, thrive on excluding other people. the kids are just imitating the patterns they pick up from adults.

> But the kids want to discriminate Nah it's just easier to have it baked-in as native functionality.

Why does approximately no one outside the US use iMessage then?

Yes, it's easier if you have $750 to spend and are willing to cede control to a trillion dollar megacorporation. It's impossible if you're already on a different platform.

Sometimes being inclusive means doing some work, going out of your way a little. Having to download another app is not a huge burden. The fact that kids aren't doing it is an indictment of American culture first, Apple second, adults third, and finally the kids themselves.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#104

Post by asclepi »

foobarchu wrote: post #99
asclepi wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage reverts to SMS when the recipient doesn't have an iPhone. All within the same app. To what does Whatsapp revert when the recipient doesn't have Whatsapp?

Reverting to SMS is the problem, though. It gives participants the illusion that the conversation can be extended to anyone, but once they find out that the platform loses features and degrades with the addition of an android participant, that person is excluded so that the rest can keep using the full-featured platform. The suggestion of WhatsApp is so that everyone can use their own phone and have full features. If…

> If someone wants to join the chat, then its on them to get on board with what everyone else wants.

However, when a community of people chooses Whatsapp as the exclusive form of communication, everyone in that community is forced to get that app or be left out of the loop. Those who object to installing Whatsapp because of the serious privacy controversies surrounding its parent are left with no choice.

This is where Messages shines, as it doesn't exclude those who can't or don't want to get an Apple device. And while the SMS fallback is indeed degraded, it still fulfills its basic promise: quick textual exchange of information. Additionally, if the recipient does get excluded because of the degraded experience, it shifts the fault and liability for not-knowing from the recipient who didn't want to accept the WhatsApp TOS to the senders who didn't provide the information because they didn't like the green bubble, although I'm fully aware that that's not how it always plays out in reality.

Neither approach is ideal, but I believe it's more important that no one should feel forced to install a proprietary app they don't trust just so they can stay up to date with their community, even if they are the single person objecting.

TL;DR Even though it falls back to its most rudimentary form, Messages by default doesn't cut off people that don't bring in any money for its parent. WhatsApp does.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#105

Post by grawprog »

asclepi wrote: post #97
Kadin wrote: post #64

I switched to iOS (via a used iPhone on a BYOD plan) primarily for iMessage. I was tired of being the odd man out, missing out on things that were being planned via group messages, etc. Nobody was going to switch to an entirely different mode of communication just for my sake, so the existence of theoretical alternatives doesn't really matter. (And I do try to use Facebook Messenger for group chats, so as not to lock…

> Nobody was going to switch to an entirely different mode of communication just for my sake Please elaborate. No iPhone user has to switch from the "iMessage" app to the "SMS" app to reach an Android user or include an Android user in a group chat. While it does indeed involve a different mode of communication, it's all handled seamlessly in the background from the same app. In fact, if it wasn't for the coloring, t…

>Not because they had to switch to another app to reach him, but "because he was on Android and turned the thread green" (sic).

That's a sneaky odd bit of social engineering. Wonder how many iphone sales they've actually gotten because of this.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#106

Post by grawprog »

pcmoney wrote: post #19
danpalmer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe WhatsApp was huge well before Facebook purchased them. From my own experience, the product has barely changed since then, so I don't really feel like it's a Facebook product (yet), and so while I dislike using Facebook services WhatApp is basically fine for now. Almost everyone I know uses WhatsApp. Funnily enough my family are the only ones who don't, and use iMessage instead. This isn't an active choice t…

It is 100% a Facebook product. It is FB. I 100% guarantee all data mined from your WhatsApp account is linked either to your FB account or your shadow FB account if you never signed up. Sure maybe the "experience" hasn't changed from a UI standpoint but FB is weakening WhatsApp's end to end encryption and mining your conversations so under the hood the experience is radically different. There is a reason the founders…

>WhatsApp's end to end encryption and mining your conversations so under the hood the experience is radically different.

An anecdotal experience i might just chaulk up to coincidence if not for this but, was talking with a friend in WhatsApp something about babies, my friend was browsing Facebook at the same time about a minute or two after our conversation about babies, my friend started getting a bunch of baby videos popping in her Facebook feed that hadn't been there prior to our conversation.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#107

Post by [deleted] »

grawprog wrote: post #105
asclepi wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody was going to switch to an entirely different mode of communication just for my sake Please elaborate. No iPhone user has to switch from the "iMessage" app to the "SMS" app to reach an Android user or include an Android user in a group chat. While it does indeed involve a different mode of communication, it's all handled seamlessly in the background from the same app. In fact, if it wasn't for the coloring, t…

>Not because they had to switch to another app to reach him, but "because he was on Android and turned the thread green" (sic). That's a sneaky odd bit of social engineering. Wonder how many iphone sales they've actually gotten because of this.

[deleted]

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#108

Post by asclepi »

grawprog wrote: post #105
asclepi wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody was going to switch to an entirely different mode of communication just for my sake Please elaborate. No iPhone user has to switch from the "iMessage" app to the "SMS" app to reach an Android user or include an Android user in a group chat. While it does indeed involve a different mode of communication, it's all handled seamlessly in the background from the same app. In fact, if it wasn't for the coloring, t…

>Not because they had to switch to another app to reach him, but "because he was on Android and turned the thread green" (sic). That's a sneaky odd bit of social engineering. Wonder how many iphone sales they've actually gotten because of this.

83% of US teens have an iPhone according to Piper Jaffray in April 2019 [1].

That number is biased, however, as 1) it's solely based on a survey done in high schools, and not every teen will feel comfortable admitting they have something else than an iPhone 2) the surveys are performed by DECA Inc. which is more affiliated with private schools and public high schools in affluent neighborhoods.

Still, I estimate that about 3 in 4 teens (and increasing) have an iPhone, either new or a model that was previously used by a parent who bought a new one. That's huge, and iMessage plays a very big role in that.

[1] https://www.ped30.com/2019/04/08/apple-piper-jaffray-genz/

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#109

Post by ariwilson »

asclepi wrote: post #45
joekrill wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most significant difference is that WhatsApp is at least platform independent. iMessage simply is not an option on Android - it's limited to iPhone users only and it doesn't seem like Apple has any intention of changing that. WhatsApp, on the other hand, can be used by whoever wants to download it. It's still vendor lock-in. Just not to the same extent.

iMessage reverts to SMS when the recipient doesn't have an iPhone. All within the same app. To what does Whatsapp revert when the recipient doesn't have Whatsapp?

Read the article; the whole problem is Apple distinguishing between Android and Apple users.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#110

Post by endperform »

damnyou wrote: post #102
givinguflac wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you aren't forced to use their voice software, and the major TV brands all have airplay built in now so you don't even need Apple TV... But yeah iMessage is on iOS though I don't see how you must buy apps to use it??

What button do I hold down on an iPhone to activate Google Assistant from the home screen?

The Google Assistant icon, assuming you have it installed.
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