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Cool but obscure X11 tools

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Re: Cool but obscure X11 tools

#151

Post by CameronNemo »

Accacin wrote: post #141
dexen wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Code which, for most people, does work. Working is not the problematic part. There are two interrelated problems: how much complexity is introduced, and how to proceed when something is not working, or is flaky. You, me, and our fellow posters know very well that Lennart's solutions are complex - in fact, more complex than the problem domain. Accordingly, the ability to narrow down, fix, or work around problems suff…

> Why is the solution more complex than the problem domain? So, where's your solution? If it's so simple, where is your contribution? The fact is, he did it. You haven't. I can't even begin to imagine how much crap Lennart gets everyday by people who think they know everything and yet never actually seem to write any code. Have some respect for the guy even if you disagree with the way he works, because you know.. hi…

openrc, runit, s6, upstart*

dmix, jack, pipewire

* now maintained at https://gitlab.com/chinstrap/startup

Re: Cool but obscure X11 tools

#152

Post by Avamander »

liability wrote: post #133
Avamander wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, and Lennart Poettering is also a jerk. Not an "I'm brash" kind of jerk (like Linus can be), but an "I'm an insecure person; don't critique my code" kind of way. Also, he thinks he's smarter than every one. I think it's largely due to how the community has treated him. It's frankly disgusting.

He should take a lead from Drew DeVault. Drew frequently says things people (including myself) disagree with and is working on software a lot of people (including myself) are very skeptical of. Yet if you try to interact with him (as I have), he's a totally reasonable and pleasant dude.

Not everyone has a thick enough skin to deal with situations the best way. The community should take lead as well.

Re: Cool but obscure X11 tools

#153

Post by CameronNemo »

derefr wrote: post #120
dexen wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Code which, for most people, does work. Working is not the problematic part. There are two interrelated problems: how much complexity is introduced, and how to proceed when something is not working, or is flaky. You, me, and our fellow posters know very well that Lennart's solutions are complex - in fact, more complex than the problem domain. Accordingly, the ability to narrow down, fix, or work around problems suff…

> All so I can seamlessly play music on TWO bluetooth speakers while also browsing logs without learning regex. Are you suggesting that the alternative is to choose to just not support these features at all? (Which isn't implausible as a suggestion ; OpenBSD doesn't support Bluetooth at all, for example. But in an ecosystem where everyone is building software to scratch their own itch, and then adopting the software…

I do not know about the person you are responding to, but I particularly take issue with how PA abstracts the hardware and does not allow low latency applications or servers such as Ardour, JACK, or other professional audio recording software to access it in an efficient manner.

So you end up with this weird situation where pulseaudio reroutes itself when JACK appears and no longer takes control of the sound card.

Why do we need to support two sound servers to take care of all the necessary features? I really hope pipewire fixes this use case and allows pro audio applications to work directly on top of pipewire while still supporting consumer friendly use cases like bluetooth speakers.

Re: Cool but obscure X11 tools

#155

Post by big_chungus »

Avamander wrote: post #127
big_chungus wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Code which, for most people, does work. That doesn't mean other stuff couldn't have been better. Here's the problem the systemd argument: it's motte-and-bailey. Systemd is a huge collection of tools, not just an init system: it's got resolved, journald, logind, tmpfiles, bootctl, networkd, and more. However, whenever it's criticized, proponents fall back on "but it's a great init system!" I agree that the unit file…

> Oh, and Lennart Poettering is also a jerk. Not an "I'm brash" kind of jerk (like Linus can be), but an "I'm an insecure person; don't critique my code" kind of way. Also, he thinks he's smarter than every one. I think it's largely due to how the community has treated him. It's frankly disgusting.

He's been that way for a long time; before he ever touched systemd. Same situation around avahi, and later around pulseaudio. I agree some people have behaved unkindly as well, but that doesn't excuse what he does. He also has a nasty habit of forcing his work into places where it is not wanted (especially now that he works for red hat).

Re: Cool but obscure X11 tools

#156

Post by Avamander »

big_chungus wrote: post #155
Avamander wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, and Lennart Poettering is also a jerk. Not an "I'm brash" kind of jerk (like Linus can be), but an "I'm an insecure person; don't critique my code" kind of way. Also, he thinks he's smarter than every one. I think it's largely due to how the community has treated him. It's frankly disgusting.

He's been that way for a long time; before he ever touched systemd. Same situation around avahi, and later around pulseaudio. I agree some people have behaved unkindly as well, but that doesn't excuse what he does. He also has a nasty habit of forcing his work into places where it is not wanted (especially now that he works for red hat).

> but that doesn't excuse what he does

It doesn't excuse the community's behaviour either to be fair.

> He also has a nasty habit of forcing his work into places where it is not wanted (especially now that he works for red hat).

I seriously doubt he has such power.

Re: Cool but obscure X11 tools

#157

Post by billfruit »

Some more obscure games were there, for example Sun Microsystems once released a book about games available on Solaris, which included a flight simulator amongst many others. Though I am unable to recollect the name.

Re: Cool but obscure X11 tools

#159

Post by CalChris »

xcostena. It was an X application written at SGI which took an order and faxed it to La Costena, a taqueria on Rengstorff (at the time). It might have been the first case of e-commerce on the internet and this was pre-web.

Re: Cool but obscure X11 tools

#160

Post by chris_wot »

CameronNemo wrote: post #151
Accacin wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is the solution more complex than the problem domain? So, where's your solution? If it's so simple, where is your contribution? The fact is, he did it. You haven't. I can't even begin to imagine how much crap Lennart gets everyday by people who think they know everything and yet never actually seem to write any code. Have some respect for the guy even if you disagree with the way he works, because you know.. hi…

openrc, runit, s6, upstart* dmix, jack, pipewire * now maintained at https://gitlab.com/chinstrap/startup

And yet none of those init systems are really being used in any significant way. It doesn't detract from them, but then they don't detract from systemd.
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