Tasty Seaweed Reduces Cows’ Methane Emissions by 99% • Hacker News Board

Re: Tasty Seaweed Reduces Cows’ Methane Emissions by 99%

#351

Post by chiefalchemist » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 4:23 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #318

chiefalchemist wrote: post #243

Let's not forget: - Producing cows is resource-intensive. Water and feed could be used more effectively elsewhere. - Consumption of red meat and dairy is generally unhealthy. - Runoff from cow "pastures" is effectively pollution. Encouraging less use of cows because of their impact on climate change was a win on a number of levels. Not any more.

> Consumption of red meat and dairy is generally unhealthy. That could be said about anything. Everything is generally unhealthy if done in excess. Moderate amounts of red meat and dairy is fine (and delicious).

Perhaps. The keyword is moderate. However, based on historic levels there are plenty of people well past moderate.

Re: Tasty Seaweed Reduces Cows’ Methane Emissions by 99%

#352

Post by avisser » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

giarc wrote: post #299

leipert wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the feasibility of this, deploying it on a large scale? I did some quick calculations on a napkin. Apparently there are between 1 billion and 1.5 billion cows [0][1]. Let’s just say 1.5 Billion. In New Zealand the beef (dry cow) vs dairy cow ratio is almost 1:1 [2], but I assume that countries like India have more dairy cows, so I just assumed that 60% percent of cows are dairy cows. Apparently dry cows consu…

The US produces 912,358 tonnes of corn per day (or 900 million kg). I suspect corn is much easier to grow than seaweed though. Just as a perspective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_production_in_the_United_...

Setting aside the difficulty in growing, algae will have the advantage of a continuous growing cycle, as opposed to corn which has a full year's crop harvested in ~25 days.

Re: Tasty Seaweed Reduces Cows’ Methane Emissions by 99%

#353

Post by leipert » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

giarc wrote: post #299

leipert wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the feasibility of this, deploying it on a large scale? I did some quick calculations on a napkin. Apparently there are between 1 billion and 1.5 billion cows [0][1]. Let’s just say 1.5 Billion. In New Zealand the beef (dry cow) vs dairy cow ratio is almost 1:1 [2], but I assume that countries like India have more dairy cows, so I just assumed that 60% percent of cows are dairy cows. Apparently dry cows consu…

The US produces 912,358 tonnes of corn per day (or 900 million kg). I suspect corn is much easier to grow than seaweed though. Just as a perspective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_production_in_the_United_...

Mhm... Looking at the numbers again:

291,000 metric tons per day => ~ 106 Million metric tons per year.

In 2014 the world wide Aquatic Plants (which include ALL Macro-Algae) production was around 27 Million tons [0].

[0]: http://www.fao.org/3/a-i5555e.pdf, page 24, table 7

Re: Tasty Seaweed Reduces Cows’ Methane Emissions by 99%

#354

Post by bjelkeman-again » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

SamuelAdams wrote: post #324

hannob wrote: post #172

Skeptical science remark: This whole "if cows eat seaweed that'll vastly reduce their carbon footprint" is based on a single study with 12 cows. If you take into consideration that especially small, never replicated studies often don't hold up to scrunity the next thing to do is not to ask how to produce the seaweed. The next reasonable step would be to try to replicate this study in a larger sample (and probably als…

I agree, we need to slowly study other groups of cows to see if this is a viable solution. I'm reading Factfulness by Hans Rosling at the moment. He had a great point about "single numbers" - the jist was to always be skeptical of just a single number or metric. Here's an example [1]. During WWII, soliders were dying in their own vomit because they were laying prone on the battlefield, in sick beds, etc and left unat…

My impression is that farmers generally areconservative about how they change their feed for their livestock. I don’t think there is any risk that they will “kill half the cow population” in a hurry.

Re: Tasty Seaweed Reduces Cows’ Methane Emissions by 99%

#355

Post by lubesGordi » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

strainer wrote: post #290

hannob wrote: post #172

Skeptical science remark: This whole "if cows eat seaweed that'll vastly reduce their carbon footprint" is based on a single study with 12 cows. If you take into consideration that especially small, never replicated studies often don't hold up to scrunity the next thing to do is not to ask how to produce the seaweed. The next reasonable step would be to try to replicate this study in a larger sample (and probably als…

"is based on a single study with 12 cows." Its not - most often "skeptical science remarks" although popular, are poorly informed and misleading. A quick scholar search shows numerous studies broadly agreeing with the one featured here, including the seaweeds effects on sheep digestion and microbial and metabolic details: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=asparagopsis+methane

Its not about skeptical remarks being poorly informed. It's about taking a thought that could occur to anyone thinking about the issue at hand without having all the information, presenting it, and having an informed reply. It's part of the dialog, and shouldn't be demonized!

Re: Tasty Seaweed Reduces Cows’ Methane Emissions by 99%

#356

Post by cgh » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

belorn wrote: post #161

wwweston wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> early indications in research of some amazing additional benefits – improved milk production, increased immunity, improved food conversion ratio What are the chances the gains here might be on the order where we could stop dosing cattle with antibiotics?

Antibiotics in farming is used in order to keep animals in a environment where if it wasn't for the antibiotics they would get sick. Factory farms, or concentrated animal feeding operation as it are sometimes called, are crowded and stressful for the animal. Hygiene, temperature and ventilation are often bad. In combination this create a environment where sickness is rampant and currently antibiotics is the primary t…

Beef cattle only spend the last few weeks of their lives on feedlots. Otherwise, they are grazing. You should visit a working ranch/farm sometime.

Re: Tasty Seaweed Reduces Cows’ Methane Emissions by 99%

#357

Post by stronglikedan » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #351

stronglikedan wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Consumption of red meat and dairy is generally unhealthy. That could be said about anything. Everything is generally unhealthy if done in excess. Moderate amounts of red meat and dairy is fine (and delicious).

Perhaps. The keyword is moderate. However, based on historic levels there are plenty of people well past moderate.

I'm just pointing out that your statement, as it stands, is false, and letting you know why that is so.

Re: Tasty Seaweed Reduces Cows’ Methane Emissions by 99%

#358

Post by darawk » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 4:45 PM UTC

axaxs wrote: post #8

darawk wrote: post #2

I feel like I read this same story once a year or so for the past 5-6 years. Why hasn't this been commercialized yet?

There's just not enough of it, nor an efficient way to get it to every animal.

That sounds like a realistic constraint...but how can that be true? Seaweed seems pretty abundant.

Re: Tasty Seaweed Reduces Cows’ Methane Emissions by 99%

#359

Post by badestrand » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

leipert wrote: post #353

giarc wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US produces 912,358 tonnes of corn per day (or 900 million kg). I suspect corn is much easier to grow than seaweed though. Just as a perspective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_production_in_the_United_...

Mhm... Looking at the numbers again: 291,000 metric tons per day => ~ 106 Million metric tons per year. In 2014 the world wide Aquatic Plants (which include ALL Macro-Algae) production was around 27 Million tons [0]. [0]: http://www.fao.org/3/a-i5555e.pdf , page 24, table 7

Current production shouldn't matter and the sea is huge - if the algae are uncomplicated to grow I don't see any reason why there should be a limit to future production.

Re: Tasty Seaweed Reduces Cows’ Methane Emissions by 99%

#360

Post by goodalgae » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

leipert wrote: post #235

goodalgae wrote: post #26

My company is currently working to grow Asparagopsis Taxiformis, here in the US, for this purpose. I agree with comments that we have big issues to tackle in regards to methane sinks failing, such as permafrost, and there are things to be said about people moving en masse to plant based diets – but, the future will always be a mix of tomorrow and today. Many people will still eat beef, and we need to ensure we reduce…

What is the feasibility of this, deploying it on a large scale? I did some quick calculations on a napkin. Apparently there are between 1 billion and 1.5 billion cows [0][1]. Let’s just say 1.5 Billion. In New Zealand the beef (dry cow) vs dairy cow ratio is almost 1:1 [2], but I assume that countries like India have more dairy cows, so I just assumed that 60% percent of cows are dairy cows. Apparently dry cows consu…

The numbers I often cite are for the US market: 94.8 million head of cattle * 25 pounds dry weight * .01 = 23,700,000 pounds of AT per day or 11,850 tons.

You're right that we can break this down with more granularity between US beef cattle (31.8 million head requiring 3,975 tons AT at 25 dry weight pounds daily consumption), dairy (9.35 million head requiring 4,675 tons AT @ 50 dry weight pounds daily consumption), calves, etc. For these two markets, the total daily tonnage required is 8,650. There are cattle that don't fall into dairy or beef categories. For US cattle industry numbers and statistics, see: https://www.ncba.org/beefindustrystatistics.aspx

We should be careful we don't talk ourselves out of efforts that are good for the world simply because they're not a one-stop solution. If Good Algae can grow to address markets outside of the US, amazing, but we will start here. And I will champion those taking additional measures to combat the crisis facing our planet.