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Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

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Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#231

Post by frenchyatwork »

lr4444lr wrote: post #215
zaroth wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is much simpler than you are making this appear. Sending an email is a private communication. Sending a tweet is a public communication. Your email provider is not a publishing platform any more than the paper store or the USPS is a publishing platform. Twitter is a publisher, although as an Internet publisher disseminating user generated content, they are protected by law from the typical liability that p…

I believe that's an artificial distinction. Companies like Mailchimp have already started implementing protections like mandatory opt-out mechanisms to protect themselves from liability. If networks of mailing lists around political rather than business interests were more common, I'd expect no less this kind of self-policing. The OP hits at a fundamental problem. I'm not sure there's a clear path forward.

I think the more relevant distinction here is that email is federated. Once Mailchimp has sent out the emails, there's not much it can do, and it would be pretty unreasonable to force Mailchimp to review filter all their emails.

Twitter, on the other hand, is publishing these messages on their site. It's very easy for them to simply stop publishing those messages. Because Twitter is in charge of Twitter, it also has to be concerned about it's brand. The more public nature of Twitter also help this along, of course.

If something like this was to happen in the ActivityPub or XMPP space, the way of handling it would probably be something in closer to email than twitter.

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#232

Post by Jwarder »

tablethnuser wrote: post #172

The rule of thumb I use is to ask: if someone had shouted this in a supermarket or bank line, what would happen? Internet communities should aspire to be more like local communities. If you're a jerk in real life, people will show you the door. Making this about grand abstract concepts like free speech or censorship is internet fun for people who like to debate. But it's overcomplicating the situation. Twitter is jus…

> The rule of thumb I use is to ask: if someone had shouted this in a supermarket or bank line, what would happen?

I can see the appeal, but I'm not sure about this. There are tons of conversations that are (to my mind) acceptable on Twitter that would be improper on other public settings.

For example there are lots of security vulnerability discussions on Twitter that I think would get you in trouble if you were loudly talking about them while waiting in line at the bank. I've seen impolite and vulgar jokes that are acceptable to share with friends who might follow you on Twitter, but would cause some pearl clutching at my local Whole Foods.

The problem (to my eye) is that Twitter is public, but public behavior isn't universal.

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#233

Post by frenchyatwork »

root_axis wrote: post #214
mrrrgn wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between a platform and a publisher. Publishers can curate, platforms aren't supposed to. As I understand it, whether social media companies are platforms or publishers forms the actual core and substance of this debate about "free speech." edit Apparently there is no legal distinction between a platform and a publisher? It looks like this article may explain the confusion that I myself had. => h…

> As I understand it, whether social media companies are platforms or publishers forms the actual core and substance of this debate about "free speech." This is wrong. There is no such distinction between platforms and publishers and the opposite is actually true. The law explicitly states that website owners are not responsible for content provided by other parties and are also explicitly permitted to curate their p…

I don't think people are arguing that what Twitter is doing is legal or illegal, but whether it's morally good or bad, and whether it will promote a better society. These are understandably much less tangible problems.

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#234

Post by ProAm »

romaaeterna wrote: post #15

Unaccountable censorship of expression by our main communication providers is incompatible with Democracy. Communication is often a natural monopoly, and you can't just "start a competitor" to Twitter and have the market fix the problem (see gab.ai). If we're going to have censorship on the big platforms (Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc.) and backbone providers (ISPs, Cloudfront), us normal human beings need…

Twitter is not a democracy. They are a public for profit company first and foremost. They can censor, modify, change anything they want at any point in time. Expect that. Cash is king.

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#235

Post by moate »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #145
moate wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is Mastercard required to do business with the Bernie Sanders campaign, even though his stated policy goals might harm their business?

No they're not. I'm pretty sure, based on comments below, that they're legally allowed to not allow their platform to be used to process payments for thing they don't want. The same way a business can state "Cash Only" in the US. This would be terrible optics, and when you broker in money/payments and not thoughts/words, you're probably hamstringing yourself relative to your competition who don't care.

But what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#236

Post by RestlessMind »

ProAm wrote: post #234
romaaeterna wrote: post #15

Unaccountable censorship of expression by our main communication providers is incompatible with Democracy. Communication is often a natural monopoly, and you can't just "start a competitor" to Twitter and have the market fix the problem (see gab.ai). If we're going to have censorship on the big platforms (Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc.) and backbone providers (ISPs, Cloudfront), us normal human beings need…

Twitter is not a democracy. They are a public for profit company first and foremost. They can censor, modify, change anything they want at any point in time. Expect that. Cash is king.

It is not a company operating in a vacuum but a public company in a democracy and is subject to the laws (and in general, political will) of the society. If companies were free to "censor, modify, change anything they want at any point in time", then we would not have anti-trust laws or close scrutiny of dominant companies.

Ultimately, companies don't exist in a vacuum. If they don't adhere to the political will of the society they operate in,

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#237

Post by notyourwork »

RestlessMind wrote: post #236
ProAm wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter is not a democracy. They are a public for profit company first and foremost. They can censor, modify, change anything they want at any point in time. Expect that. Cash is king.

It is not a company operating in a vacuum but a public company in a democracy and is subject to the laws (and in general, political will) of the society. If companies were free to "censor, modify, change anything they want at any point in time", then we would not have anti-trust laws or close scrutiny of dominant companies. Ultimately, companies don't exist in a vacuum. If they don't adhere to the political will of t…

Vacuum has nothing to do with it. Twitter is a platform, you are not compelled to use it. Don’t like it that is fine but popularity doesn’t imply it requires to operate any way other than the way it decides as a company. Why do we expect companies to act like a government we have control over?

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#238

Post by moate »

Mirioron wrote: post #153
hacknat wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m confused. What technology did twitter replace? Oh it didn’t? This is completely new, the ability to communicate to this many people at once? Okay so what ancient rights are being trampled exactly? If anything we probably need to be censoring people on Twitter right now as it doesn’t seem to convince anyone of anything other than that the people on the other-side of their argument are sub-human. Edit: Also, it alw…

Even though Twitter and the like might be new technology, they are still replacing the old. People only have so much time in the day and all the other ways that people engage in politics compete with Twitter and the like. And it seems that Twitter and the like have won that competition. This means that a large chunk of political discourse now happens on services like Twitter.

>>Even though Twitter and the like might be new technology, they are still replacing the old.

Which "the old" specifically? What did my great grandfather use to directly contact the Henry Ford and get into a flame war with him about how his newfangled "horseless carriage" was killing his equestrian breeding business?

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#239

Post by vertex-four »

nradov wrote: post #207
heisenbit wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what is access? Access of parties to shove information down my throat? Access for parties with deeper pockets to drown out real information? If information would be in a book and I could go to a library and seek it out - don't ban anything! But if messages are replicated in covert manner with lots of money thrown at news anchors, op-ed writers, sponsoring, bribes, syndication, SEO it is a different story. And mon…

Stop being so dramatic. No one is shoving information down your throat. You can log off Twitter.

“You can log off Twitter” is not an argument that is compatible with the idea that Twitter is so important that moderation is tantamount to censorship.

Re: Twitter locked my account for a nine year old tweet

#240

Post by notyourwork »

hacknat wrote: post #117
romaaeterna wrote: post #15

Unaccountable censorship of expression by our main communication providers is incompatible with Democracy. Communication is often a natural monopoly, and you can't just "start a competitor" to Twitter and have the market fix the problem (see gab.ai). If we're going to have censorship on the big platforms (Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc.) and backbone providers (ISPs, Cloudfront), us normal human beings need…

I’m confused. What technology did twitter replace? Oh it didn’t? This is completely new, the ability to communicate to this many people at once? Okay so what ancient rights are being trampled exactly? If anything we probably need to be censoring people on Twitter right now as it doesn’t seem to convince anyone of anything other than that the people on the other-side of their argument are sub-human. Edit: Also, it alw…

I agree with you except for the last part about dismissing the power of social platforms to influence people through consumption of “news” and current events.
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