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Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

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Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To your sequestration comment. No one is saying don't plant trees. Fuck yeah, plant all the trees! But that won't wont be enough. Sequestration will get better, but one of the big things it helps with is locality. CO2 isn't homogenously spread across the globe. It also doesn't spread very well. Concentrations vary drastically over the year and so do plants' ability to capture carbon. Carbon can build up in certain re…

Ummm, planting trees is pointless, virtue-signaling tokenism that cannot capture any meaningful carbon because it doesn't sequester anything permanently. Thunderf00t throughly debunked the Ethiopian plan as utterly pointless. https://youtu.be/Z5uuIcS4kqE

Next time, could you get a video from someone who's actually seen a tree?

That video was just awful. It's only redeeming feature was that it was short. Here's what he got wrong:

1. The mass of CO2 in the atmosphere is about 3E+12 tonnes (not tons). Around a third of that is additional from humans, so around 1E+12 (cf trillionthton.org - they were a bit optimistic). That's pretty close to what he had, only out by a factor of 2, but purely by chance (there's a fair bit of that).

2. He rounded down the population, so the figure of 130 tonnes per person is again, pretty close.

3. The 0.33 tonnes per year from just breathing is beyond stupid. Unless you're drinking gasoline and eating coal, then all the CO2 you breathe out came from the atmosphere in the first place. It came from growing plants. This is just lazy and ignorant. It's not like he even uses this figure anyway.

4. Typical per-capita CO2 is not "10-ish tonnes per year" for a developed country. That's the high end. The UK is hardly a shining beacon of green policy, and even it is at 6.5 tonnes per year. What's more, we're trying to improve on that. 5 tonnes per year is closer to what the average person can easily manage without sacrificing anything.

5. Not all CO2 emissions stay in the atmosphere. A large part are absorbed by the oceans (hence ocean acidification). He should know this.

6. Great, now we've got the bizarre rectangular tree. Was the volume of a cylinder too much work to look up? Anyway, it's actually oddly difficult to get the total mass of a tree (not that he tried), because lumber yards tend to only care about the trunk. I found a site that gave a complete measurement of an oak, including canopy and roots. It came out to around 20 tons, around 10 tons dry biomass, giving around 5 tonnes carbon.

7. Carbon. Not CO2. Multiply by 44/12 to get the CO2 required. That's 18 tonnes CO2 per tree. Let's drop that down to 10 and say we have small trees.

8. Wait, what? He didn't even use the volume. He just guessed 1 tonne C02 per tree!

9. When trees die, they leave a gap in the forest and new trees grow. How else would forests last for thousands of years? Once you've planted the trees they will replace themselves. What's more, the wood could be used for building or furniture which means it will retain the CO2 even longer. What's even more, giving ourselves a hundred years or so breathing space while we reduce and reverse emmissions is absolutely worth it.

Huh, I didn't mean to type so much but there was so much wrong with that video that I just kept going.

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People pretend it's hard to create a carbon tax, but it's really not. Just tax the fuel (gas/oil/coal), and the cost will be passed on to polluters. Edit, of course, politically yes it's hard.

Does it have to be? Planet Money had an episode about "revenue-neutral carbon tax", where all the money collected is returned back to the tax payers, to spend however they want. The point of this tax is not to raise money, but to change behavior. This, a family that drives to work and school every day will pay more carbon tax, but this will be offset by the tax refund (or lower income tax). And a family that finds wa…

Here is the Carbon Fee and Dividend proposal: https://citizensclimatelobby.org/carbon-fee-and-dividend/

I like it a lot, but the problem is the major industries that will be heavily impacted/closed down as a result. They have immense political power, and I don't see any way around that. Hope I'm wrong.

And that's of course just one country out of 200. There is no local solution to global warming!

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ummm, planting trees is pointless, virtue-signaling tokenism that cannot capture any meaningful carbon because it doesn't sequester anything permanently. Thunderf00t throughly debunked the Ethiopian plan as utterly pointless. https://youtu.be/Z5uuIcS4kqE

Next time, could you get a video from someone who's actually seen a tree? That video was just awful. It's only redeeming feature was that it was short. Here's what he got wrong: 1. The mass of CO2 in the atmosphere is about 3E+12 tonnes (not tons). Around a third of that is additional from humans, so around 1E+12 (cf trillionthton.org - they were a bit optimistic). That's pretty close to what he had, only out by a fa…

With you until the last point. When newly planted forests mature, a lost tree is not generally replaced. Trees around the 'gap' grow into the gap and take the sunlight, getting larger in the process.

In this way a stand of small trees becomes a much-less-dense stand of very large mature trees.

Don't know how it affects the analysis - is a mature forest more carbon-dense than a newly-planted one?

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People pretend it's hard to create a carbon tax, but it's really not. Just tax the fuel (gas/oil/coal), and the cost will be passed on to polluters. Edit, of course, politically yes it's hard.

Does it have to be? Planet Money had an episode about "revenue-neutral carbon tax", where all the money collected is returned back to the tax payers, to spend however they want. The point of this tax is not to raise money, but to change behavior. This, a family that drives to work and school every day will pay more carbon tax, but this will be offset by the tax refund (or lower income tax). And a family that finds wa…

They tried that here in Canada, and it is both too small to have much impact, and getting massive pushback from the Conservative party.

You have to keep in mind that even if it’s revenue neutral, explaining the scheme to taxpayers is going to be difficult, and your opponents are going to try their darndest to make it sound unappealing, even if it means spreading misinformation.

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#195
post #85

So they're basically going to pay for the CO2 emissions at around 100$ per tonne (10 cents per kg), right? Well, we can calculate the C02 exhaled by a typical human, as [1] 36.84 mg = 0.03684 kg of CO2 per breath. (0.03684 kg @ 10c per kg) Therefore each breath you exhale is worth 0.003684 cents.... So how do you want to pay me @stripe? [1] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-mass-of-the-carbon-dioxide...

Are you saying you’re going to stop breathing after receiving the money?

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next time, could you get a video from someone who's actually seen a tree? That video was just awful. It's only redeeming feature was that it was short. Here's what he got wrong: 1. The mass of CO2 in the atmosphere is about 3E+12 tonnes (not tons). Around a third of that is additional from humans, so around 1E+12 (cf trillionthton.org - they were a bit optimistic). That's pretty close to what he had, only out by a fa…

With you until the last point. When newly planted forests mature, a lost tree is not generally replaced. Trees around the 'gap' grow into the gap and take the sunlight, getting larger in the process. In this way a stand of small trees becomes a much-less-dense stand of very large mature trees. Don't know how it affects the analysis - is a mature forest more carbon-dense than a newly-planted one?

Yeah, I did oversimplify that. I guess I was really saying, that if your trees live for 100 years, say, it's not like the whole forest disappears once the 100 years are up.

And, of course, if it's used for forestry, the trees will be continually removed and new ones planted.

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#197
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say I'm a regular web developer and know nothing about climate science, carbon removal, or any related science or technologies, but might be interested in donating my time and and skills. Do you have any recommendations?

This is probably a really sensitive topic but.. Donating your time to help get politicians elected who are serious about doing what's necessary may be the best thing you can do.

I think this is seriously naive.

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Burying biochar (the superset of charcoal, basically) in old coal mines or other geological structures is a feasible way for long-term storage. The carbon content can be up to 90%, depending on the method. Biochar can be made from nearly all forms of biomass as long as it's dry enought.

Now I wonder how would old coal miners feel if you told them nowadays the coal is supposed to go in the ground.

I think, they would be happy to keep their jobs and get paid for several decades to come. Also, the coal companies wouldn't have to write off their investments, since some of their technology could probably be reused.

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#199

It's a small step in the grand scheme of things... But it's a huge step (and commitment) coming from a single company. I can honestly say that no company the size of Stripe has even come close to being this "cool" (in a good way, not in a superficial sense) on so many things: company culture, remote-ok, perks, and now environment. At least from my point of view. Kudos. Lots of kudos. Keep the good work, guys. As a si…

Recent paper on tree planting potential: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/365/6448/76

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need massive mobilization at the federal level to hit the necessary emissions reductions within the next 12 years if we are to avoid a catastrophic rise in temperature. That doesn’t really make sense IMHO, global warming isn’t a US problem, it’s a worldwide issue. Let’s say the US becomes a benevolent dictatorship with the mission to reduce CO2 emissions by any mean necessary (and is somehow successful), you sti…

You do your part, other countries try to do the same, and various means and strategies are implemented and shared globally. This “but we can’t fix it all alone, it’s a global issue” thinking mode has to go. All contributions are important in reducing the speed of warming, whether your neighbour participates or not. Interestingly, the longer you wait, the more you can expect people with more extreme agendas to pop up…

> This “but we can’t fix it all alone, it’s a global issue” thinking mode has to go.

Ok, why? It is a global issue, that’s not something we can ignore. You can change your way of thinking if you want, but I don’t see why you would ignore that point. I find it disingenuous to say “if the US government doesn’t do X in 12 years then we are doomed”, because it’s not true. Of course I’m not saying that nothing should be done, and I never said it cannot be fixed (or dealt with), that’s just you putting words in my mouth. But the US government has a terrible history at dealing with other countries, and creating a giant mess all around. Just imagine Trump deciding to focus on climate issues, I cannot see how that wouldn’t result in a complete disaster with international conflicts.

I think that we should keep the framing on the global aspect, and think about it as a common goal.

I don’t disagree with the rest of your comment, I completely support any effort at a local level.

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