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Why Groupon is not in Australia (domain squatter)

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Re: Why Groupon is not in Australia (domain squatter)

#41

I don't have a side to take in this, but I think it should be pointed out that scoopon have a real business that's been going some time and seems to be reasonably profitable. The name thing seems a bit underhanded, but I think it's disingenuous to simply label them domain squatters [Edit: I think I may have a bias against US companies intruding on Australian turf. The whole ugg boot saga has left a pretty sour taste]

It's not squatting in a conventional sense; seems more of an anti-competitive thing to make it harder for brand-name rivals to enter the market without acquiring the company. Having seen the number of acquisitions of local competitors Groupon has made (including some operations in South America accused of shady tactics themselves) it's easy to understand Scoopon's motivations, if not their lack of ethics. And chances are if Groupon did build or acquire a successful Australian operation they'd severely dent any hopes Scoopon had of making big profits.

It's a bit of a risk when WIPO or an Australian court can potentially take the domain off them for nothing though...

Re: Why Groupon is not in Australia (domain squatter)

#43

While I don't know all the details, it looks as if Groupon has gone about this the wrong way. auDA have a very clear stance against this kind of squatting (from http://www.auda.org.au/policies/auda-2010-05/ ); a. Applicable Disputes. You are required to submit to a mandatory administrative proceeding in the event that a third party (a "complainant") asserts to the applicable Provider, in compliance with the Rules of…

Ok, do tell: Please describe the name (Australian personal or business name) that Groupon USA has rights in, to which the groupon.com.au domain is confusingly similar.

Re: Why Groupon is not in Australia (domain squatter)

#44
post #20
post #10

Domain squatters may not be OK, but identical business models are just another legitimate challenge (business models can't be patented). They need boots on the ground and it may not be possible for Groupon to physically get there before the competition. Either way, it's good for the end user, who will go from zero to several choices practically over night. It also prevents Groupon from becoming a monopoly.

There are multiple Groupon "clones" on the ground in Australia, a few doing some fairly big numbers. Groupon have acquired one of the biggest (if my sources are correct) in JumpOnIt.com.au. Scoopons behaviour is pretty low IMHO. Registering not only the domain name groupon.com.au but also the company name and the trademark?

Yeah there has been a few of these types of sites popping up on TV ads. Was wondering where one of them, cudo got the massive funding they must need to be pushing all these TV ads and promotions on thing like the cricket, turns out it's a Microsoft/PBL company. That's going to be some fairly steep competition for groupon in Australia.

http://thenextweb.com/au/2010/09/10/microsoft-launches-group...

Re: Why Groupon is not in Australia (domain squatter)

#45
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not always as simple as registering a domain name on GoDaddy or a local registrar though. To register a .com.au domain name, you're required to have an Australian Business Number (i.e. incorporate locally). It's easy to get one, but how many other international domain names do you want to register that require extra work?

Some registrars specialize in this, SafeNames for example.

A company such as SafeNames is no guarantee though. They've been in trouble in Australia before for registering domain names on behalf of foreign entities that would not have been able to do so normally. In turn, any domains that weren't compliant were deleted.

http://www.auda.org.au/news-archive/auda-06122009/

Re: Why Groupon is not in Australia (domain squatter)

#46

I don't have a side to take in this, but I think it should be pointed out that scoopon have a real business that's been going some time and seems to be reasonably profitable. The name thing seems a bit underhanded, but I think it's disingenuous to simply label them domain squatters [Edit: I think I may have a bias against US companies intruding on Australian turf. The whole ugg boot saga has left a pretty sour taste]

If they're running such a great business, why would they use a blatantly anti-competitive legal maneuver? Furthermore, if they do want to run the business, why are they making Groupon buy them? Why not just raise the sale price for the domain/trademark?

This move makes Scoopon look like a build-to-flip, rather than a meaningful business on its own, which would worry me if I were one of their customers or merchants.

Re: Why Groupon is not in Australia (domain squatter)

#47

If Groupon is heavily localised, what benefit is there to consumer if it's the official Groupon, the fake Groupon or another clone that's offering the deal, other than the clones not being a "brand name"? I'm assuming that any Groupon clones would be able to sell to businesses just as well as the real Groupon.

The merchants in AU benefit from Groupon's worldwide brand and popularity. The customers benefit from having the best merchants doing well-structured deals. 500 cities into their worldwide expansion, Groupon has done this better than anyone.

Remember, the product being sold to businesses is a large quantity of new customers. Anyone can sell deals, but it takes a lot of money and organization to move the needle. If Scoopon thinks they can do this, then more power to them. But play fair.

Re: Why Groupon is not in Australia (domain squatter)

#48
Karma?

From Andrew's Mixergy interview, http://mixergy.com/andrew-mason-groupon-interview/ -

Talking in regards to the original British owner of Groupon: "...We’re doing something somewhat similar to that in the United States, so, maybe we can work together on this. We can take this to Europe.’ He said, ‘No way.’ We said, ‘Okay. ‘We continued operating. Then we had a trademark for Groupon. That trademark extended to England. We contact him and say, ‘Hey, you can launch that thing, but you can’t use the name Groupon because we have a trademark on it.’ So then, he decided he wanted to sell. I think we bought it in May 2009 or something like that for maybe $250,000, which seemed like a lot at the time and now it seems cheap."

Re: Why Groupon is not in Australia (domain squatter)

#49
This is an interesting can of worms and a lesson in being proactive about securing your trademarks and domain names in other jurisdictions whether you intend to launch there or not.

Despite the fact that Scoopon is arguably a real business this really is a domain squatting case. After all Groupon has nothing to do with their business or branding. Registering the trademark and the domain name was preemptive and is leverage to get bought out. I don't really care if they are a real business or not.

Speaking as an Australian, it is important that companies that operate in Australia have a .com.au domain. It's not uncommon for me to tell someone my address (gmail.com) and then find out later they'd tried to send it to gmail.com.au.

I always thought it was a mistake by the UK to use .co.uk instead of .com.uk for consistency reasons but having thought about it, I think it may make the distinction clearer.

So what should Groupon do? Basically they should do what Google did in the UK. For years Google didn't own the gmail name there so branded themselves as googlemail.

By pressing on you're telling the other side that you're not reliant on them giving up the name. It gives you bargaining power.

Suing them is a good idea too. It bleeds money they probably don't have (which clearly Groupon does).

The worst thing Groupon could do is stall their activities waiting for a resolution. Groupon is a time-sensitive business. There's nothing magical about what they do and someone else can replicate it (as happened in Germany I believe).

It would be risky to proceed under the brand name of Groupon however because the trademark muddies the waters. There is the possibility that if Scoopon successfully defend the trademark, Groupon will then be liable for damages for infringing upon it.

Best bet: pick a new brand name, register the trademark and domain name and proceed. Make the other side an offer with a time limit. If they decline, stop talking to them. While this is happening simply proceed. There is infrastructure that needs to be built regardless of the brand name (finding offices, hiring salespeople and copy editors and so forth).

As you gain traction occasionally make them an offer for the name. As time goes on LOWER the offer because by this point you've invested in your new brand so the old one has less value.

At some point the squatters will either give up and sell or it simply won't matter because you'll have built your business on a new brand.

Re: Why Groupon is not in Australia (domain squatter)

#50

none being more sinister than Nopuorg If they think Nopuorg is sinister, why give them a direct link and not even include rel="nofollow" Seems like it would help Nopuorg more than it hurts. Edit: Have you read Nopuorg's About page? It's ridiculous http://www.nopuorg.com/about Nopuorg was effectively launched in 1981 when its visionary founder, Mason Andrews, was fetally conceived. and Realizing at a young age that he…

It's groupon... backwards.
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