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YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

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Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#71

Post by wyoh »

monocasa wrote: post #5
vorticalbox wrote: post #2

Happens to all creators equaly because that's how the algorithm works.

It doesn't. LGBTQ is a category that gets special cased in order to block homophobic creators. But it mainly just blocks pro-LGBTQ creators because the homophobic creators are more likely to speak in dog whistles that the blocking algorithms don't understand, whereas the pro-LGBTQ creators speak frankly and quote homophobic speech in order to comment on it.

LGBT creators are not a special case, all news and politics commentators I follow are demonetized, all gun related channels as well.

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#72

Post by greglindahl »

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #70
greglindahl wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you propose to pick the next autoplay video? How do you propose making advertisers happy? Easy to cry censorship; hard to address real business issues.

Easy as all getout. 1. Don't have "autoplay". Make the user choose. Autoplay is not good for society. "Tip your head back, turn your brain off, and let the algorithm feed you what will keep you here." 2. Give the advertisers more fine grained controls on what types of videos their ads show on. If a stink goes up because Dove doesn't want to be on a PewDiePie video, then that isn't Google's fault. It's Dove's. Let the…

Totally cool that it's easy for you! Except that youtube doesn't want to do 1, and for 2, you have to classify the videos to let the advertisers choose, which is exactly the same problem that youtube already has.

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#73

Post by jakelazaroff »

ralusek wrote: post #46
jakelazaroff wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If YouTube can't protect its users, and the content people are posting is too distressing even for moderators, maybe YouTube shouldn't exist?

Isn't a more reasonable solution that the users select content that they are comfortable with, or just leave the platform altogether? YouTube is mine and hundreds of millions of people's favorite site on the internet. If I see content I don't like, I go to other content.

What if you want to post videos and interact with a community, but every time you do you get brigaded by hundreds of harassers?

What if the filters intended to prevent hate speech end up harming the targets of that hate speech instead?

What if YouTube's algorithms push conspiracy theories and manifestos of domestic terrorists into people's feeds?

These are not "deal with it or leave" issues; these are existential crises that we must hold platforms accountable to solving.

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#75

Post by ralusek »

cameldrv wrote: post #65
ralusek wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really don't like it, don't go on the site. I don't go on almost every site there is. Do you think it is a morally defensible position that your sensibilities be foisted upon other people in such an extreme fashion that you would deny them access to a platform altogether? Don't you think it's at least worth exploring something akin to subreddits, where communities can be moderated to the tastes of the specific…

If you don't like YouTube demonetizing videos, don't upload your videos to the site then. Personally I don't have a problem with people discussing or making videos of whatever they want to. I don't like the fact that YouTube with the recommender and Autoplay is stochastic mind control. It's programmed to make people watch loads of YouTube, and the mechanism that it has discovered to do that is to nudge people to obse…

Did you mean to suggest that I have a problem with YouTube demonetizing? If it bothered me enough so as to make the content I like inaccessible, leaving the site is exactly what I would do. That doesn't mean I think they shouldn't exist, or be able to do what they'd like.

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#76

Post by ralusek »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #73
ralusek wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't a more reasonable solution that the users select content that they are comfortable with, or just leave the platform altogether? YouTube is mine and hundreds of millions of people's favorite site on the internet. If I see content I don't like, I go to other content.

What if you want to post videos and interact with a community, but every time you do you get brigaded by hundreds of harassers? What if the filters intended to prevent hate speech end up harming the targets of that hate speech instead? What if YouTube's algorithms push conspiracy theories and manifestos of domestic terrorists into people's feeds? These are not "deal with it or leave" issues; these are existential cri…

If you mean legally, I disagree. If you mean that you boycott it, then that's obviously fine.

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#77

Post by goatinaboat »

perl4ever wrote: post #38
jakelazaroff wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If YouTube can't protect its users, and the content people are posting is too distressing even for moderators, maybe YouTube shouldn't exist?

The obvious solution is to restrict who can use YouTube in some way that anti-correlates with posting awful stuff. I don't know specifically, but there must be something.

Require verified ID for every uploader. Charge a token amount say $1 for every upload. Only accept uploads from countries with law enforcement that handles bad content and make it clear that law enforcement will be knocking on your door if you upload anything bad. Extend this to commenters.

This is just not a difficult problem, YouTube just doesn’t want to solve it

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#78

Post by Fomite »

Mirioron wrote: post #42
jakelazaroff wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that they shouldn't do it algorithmically. They need to have guidelines for what type of content is acceptable, and hire people to enforce them.

Then the costs of YouTube probably balloon so high that it doesn't matter for creators whether their videos are demonetized or not, because they aren't going to earn anything from them.

We may be hitting the point where societal impact is great enough that people don't necessarily accept "We can't do that at scale" as an out.

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#79

Post by tomlockwood »

pdkl95 wrote: post #60

s/(algorithmic|human) moderation/a rule of law/g This mess will only get worse as long as Google insists on trying to fix unsolved social conflicts unilaterally. Google made themselves the primary target when they started to make decisions with large social consequences by fiat. They de facto implemented rule of man [1]. The solution is to not be the sole entity with the power to make decisions about unsolved social…

> The solution is to not be the sole entity with the power to make decisions about unsolved social issues. Relinquish the power to make decisions about what kind of content is "acceptable" by implementing a rule of law managed by some kind of publicly accountable, transparent governance

They started making these decisions, because Capitalism.

They're publicly traded. Shareholders demand more profits. Advertising is the vast majority of their Youtube profits. Advertisers are risk averse. No fortune 500 company wants their ad running on white supremacist/violent/sexually explicit content. There is collateral damage, but caring about that only marginally increases profit.

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#80

Post by goatinaboat »

Fomite wrote: post #78
Mirioron wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then the costs of YouTube probably balloon so high that it doesn't matter for creators whether their videos are demonetized or not, because they aren't going to earn anything from them.

We may be hitting the point where societal impact is great enough that people don't necessarily accept "We can't do that at scale" as an out.

Indeed. Given the vast wealth Google etc have accumulated its clear that actually, they could afford to do it, and still make good, but not astounding, profits.

The rationale “we can’t make as much money as we’d like to if we followed the law” just won’t wash.

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