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YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

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Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#61

Post by sittingnut »

cameldrv wrote: post #54
ralusek wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't a more reasonable solution that the users select content that they are comfortable with, or just leave the platform altogether? YouTube is mine and hundreds of millions of people's favorite site on the internet. If I see content I don't like, I go to other content.

The users don't select content. The recommender algorithm does, and then it autoplays it.

users do select content to watch even if some human trained algorithm recommends it and it's one click to disable autoplay. users have free choice and choice is not limited to what youtube recommends or even youtube. don't fake act as if youtube is in total control and through that try to control what others get recommended.

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#62

Post by greglindahl »

aldoushuxley001 wrote: post #51
ralusek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention that people are biased and cannot be trusted to moderate ethically.

Yeah it seems the best solutions simply involve users flagging content themselves and being able to see what other people have reported regarding other content

Yep. No chance that brigading will result. Also, how good are kids at evaluating what other people have reported?

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#63

Post by greglindahl »

coolblah wrote: post #30

This problem wouldn't exist if there was no "moderation" (which is censorship) at all.

How do you propose to pick the next autoplay video?

How do you propose making advertisers happy?

Easy to cry censorship; hard to address real business issues.

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#64

Post by toomanybeersies »

fareesh wrote: post #20

What if monetized videos can't be viewed without spending "ad bucks"? To earn "ad bucks", you have to watch an ad. The ad watching takes place in a dedicated ads section of the site, completely independent of all videos. The vast majority of monetized videos would cost 1 ad buck, so watch one ad. The ad watching is just a giant "watch ad" button. The algorithm goes through all all the info about me and shows me a rel…

Then I can just put ads on in the background while I'm cooking my dinner to save up ad bucks.

I guess the solution is to use some technology to ensure that the viewer is watching the ads, like in Black Mirror S01E02.

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#65

Post by cameldrv »

ralusek wrote: post #59
cameldrv wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The users don't select content. The recommender algorithm does, and then it autoplays it.

If you really don't like it, don't go on the site. I don't go on almost every site there is. Do you think it is a morally defensible position that your sensibilities be foisted upon other people in such an extreme fashion that you would deny them access to a platform altogether? Don't you think it's at least worth exploring something akin to subreddits, where communities can be moderated to the tastes of the specific…

If you don't like YouTube demonetizing videos, don't upload your videos to the site then. Personally I don't have a problem with people discussing or making videos of whatever they want to.

I don't like the fact that YouTube with the recommender and Autoplay is stochastic mind control. It's programmed to make people watch loads of YouTube, and the mechanism that it has discovered to do that is to nudge people to obsess over fringe things, causing them to watch videos about these things for hours per day.

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#66

Post by topmonk »

monocasa wrote: post #28
jakelazaroff wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that they shouldn't do it algorithmically. They need to have guidelines for what type of content is acceptable, and hire people to enforce them.

Or both. Have a scanner, but also have a meaningful appeals process, and you don't have a demonitized gap just because you were falsely flagged.

How can you not have a demonitized gap? Advertisers aren't going to want to have they ads on content that hasn't been vetted.

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#67

Post by ajross »

swebs wrote: post #34
rnd0 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4chan tried that; everyone knows how spectacularly that failed.

Failed? It's doing quite well

4chan famously did an about face post-Gamergate and started moderating heavily. The whole reason we're talking about 8chan now with respect to racial violence is that those folks were all effectively ejected from 4chan.

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#68

Post by wyoh »

ppseafield wrote: post #23
Animats wrote: post #15

Arguing that there's a right to get ad revenue from your videos is a big stretch. Has that ever come up before in the history of free speech? Classic issues are more like "can we make the newspaper run our ad if we pay the regular rates?" Google recently won a lawsuit which complained YouTube was putting conservative content in "restricted" mode.[1] Others complain Google is not doing enough to avoid shoving too many…

It's not just about "not getting ad revenue". It's about accounts getting suspended, homophobic ads running on pro-lgbt videos, and a total lack of enforcement on their harassment policies. https://twitter.com/gaywonk/status/1134264395717103617?lang=...

I don't think it's a good idea to quote this asshole when the fuss he's made with his (former) employer resulted in the de monetization of thousands of channels, not only Crowder.

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#69

Post by wyoh »

greglindahl wrote: post #63
coolblah wrote: post #30

This problem wouldn't exist if there was no "moderation" (which is censorship) at all.

How do you propose to pick the next autoplay video? How do you propose making advertisers happy? Easy to cry censorship; hard to address real business issues.

Have advertisers select on what kind of content they want to appear instead of baring all ads for some creators? I'm sure some advertisers don't mind being associated with mature audience.

Re: YouTube’s LGBTQ Problem Is a Business-Model Problem

#70

Post by bjt2n3904 »

greglindahl wrote: post #63
coolblah wrote: post #30

This problem wouldn't exist if there was no "moderation" (which is censorship) at all.

How do you propose to pick the next autoplay video? How do you propose making advertisers happy? Easy to cry censorship; hard to address real business issues.

Easy as all getout.

1. Don't have "autoplay". Make the user choose. Autoplay is not good for society. "Tip your head back, turn your brain off, and let the algorithm feed you what will keep you here."

2. Give the advertisers more fine grained controls on what types of videos their ads show on. If a stink goes up because Dove doesn't want to be on a PewDiePie video, then that isn't Google's fault. It's Dove's. Let the advertiser add PDP to the blacklist, or make a more exclusive whitelist.

It's like Twitter. "Oh, oh no... how do we stop people seeing all this awful content?"

A) Stop deciding for the user (and therefore the entire website) what is awful

B) Give the user better blocking controls.

However, this won't happen, because Google and Twitter like being able to shape what the "algorithm" shows you, and keeping that control in their hands. This is why the chronological timeline isn't coming back.

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