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Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

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Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#81

I'm a big 'ol fan of Stripe, but large scale change isn't going to happen through corporate self regulation. I wish tech companies that insist they want to make large, positive changes would come to terms with the fact that putting pressure on political levers is fundamentally necessary. I would be far more aggressive in my support of this effort if it was explicitly "we're doing this effort to cover our own tracks a…

OTOH let’s say you spent $1M a year on a PAC. In this political environment how far would you be able to go?

This feels like trying to establish some sort of technological catalyst. This also might not be enough but it’s something.

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#82

I'm a big 'ol fan of Stripe, but large scale change isn't going to happen through corporate self regulation. I wish tech companies that insist they want to make large, positive changes would come to terms with the fact that putting pressure on political levers is fundamentally necessary. I would be far more aggressive in my support of this effort if it was explicitly "we're doing this effort to cover our own tracks a…

I disagree. While there is no guarantee large scale change will be fully driven by corporate self regulation, I'd argue that corporate self regulation, and initiatives like this, have the potential to be substantially more impactful than waiting on help from dysfunctional big government.

yes we need political levers to move, but I'm not holding my breath, and I welcome any and all corporate efforts.

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#83

I'm a big 'ol fan of Stripe, but large scale change isn't going to happen through corporate self regulation. I wish tech companies that insist they want to make large, positive changes would come to terms with the fact that putting pressure on political levers is fundamentally necessary. I would be far more aggressive in my support of this effort if it was explicitly "we're doing this effort to cover our own tracks a…

>I wish tech companies that… want… large, positive changes would [accept] that putting pressure on political levers is fundamentally necessary.

I agree that corporate self-regulation is the laziest political solution. But instead of doubling down on a mistake, let's get all company hands off the political levers and have real separation of corp and state. Company influence on politics is an arms race that entrenches the most powerful firms, many of which are fundamentally opposed to climate change regulation.

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#84

It's a small step in the grand scheme of things... But it's a huge step (and commitment) coming from a single company. I can honestly say that no company the size of Stripe has even come close to being this "cool" (in a good way, not in a superficial sense) on so many things: company culture, remote-ok, perks, and now environment. At least from my point of view. Kudos. Lots of kudos. Keep the good work, guys. As a si…

To your sequestration comment. No one is saying don't plant trees. Fuck yeah, plant all the trees! But that won't wont be enough. Sequestration will get better, but one of the big things it helps with is locality. CO2 isn't homogenously spread across the globe. It also doesn't spread very well. Concentrations vary drastically over the year and so do plants' ability to capture carbon. Carbon can build up in certain re…

I’m no biologist but coral seems incredibly f*ed whenever I hear about it. Is there any chance of us actually saving coral?

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#85
So they're basically going to pay for the CO2 emissions at around 100$ per tonne (10 cents per kg), right?

Well, we can calculate the C02 exhaled by a typical human, as [1] 36.84 mg = 0.03684 kg of CO2 per breath. (0.03684 kg @ 10c per kg) Therefore each breath you exhale is worth 0.003684 cents....

So how do you want to pay me @stripe?

[1] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-mass-of-the-carbon-dioxide...

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#86

It's a small step in the grand scheme of things... But it's a huge step (and commitment) coming from a single company. I can honestly say that no company the size of Stripe has even come close to being this "cool" (in a good way, not in a superficial sense) on so many things: company culture, remote-ok, perks, and now environment. At least from my point of view. Kudos. Lots of kudos. Keep the good work, guys. As a si…

Nearly every day on here there's a thread about empty/meaningless work and feeling like we're not contributing anything that will matter 50 years from now - and I often participate as I feel this way quite strongly. This is the kind of work that's meaningful. This is a huge commitment to well-thought-out climate healing and using wealth for actual tangible good. Stripe already deserves a place above FAANG for their incredible work culture [1] but this goes even beyond that and would be fantastic to contribute towards. I'll be checking their careers page often, in case they get into hardware.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19422833

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#87
Major respect to Stripe for starting this program, as this helps solve a real problem in the carbon dioxide removal (CDR) field. At Project Vesta (thanks for the shoutout[1]), while we have a plan for individuals to pay for their CO2 removal by donating directly for a specific tonnage of olivine to be placed on a beach in their name, all of the investors/fund advisors who have approached us and are interested in getting into the CDR field, have generally been limited in that they can only make investments into an organization if there is a way to get a financial return. They can't put money in non-profits, even to potentially help "save the world," as they are still operating with a fiduciary responsibility and for-profit motives. If no one is paying for carbon removal, there is no business. For scientists and others trying to create carbon removal solutions, this represents a major problem, as no matter how good or cheap their CDR technique is, they also have to come up with a market of who will buy their CDR "product."

So even though many groups/companies want to get involved in CDR, if there is no market for paying for "CDR as a product," investors will not put money in. Having Stripe and other companies guarantee payment for carbon dioxide removal would actually make a real difference in helping to spur the CDR market. Companies would be able to point at who will buy their "product" and at what price, and then investors would be able to invest.

Creating a carbon price is the most obvious and simple solution to make the "free market" solve a problem created by the inefficiency of the "free market" in the first place, of not pricing in the real world cost of the externalities from each tonne of CO2 released. The emitters should have to pay because each tonne of carbon put out into the atmosphere causes economic damage in terms of health effects and more. Some 30,000 people die prematurely in the US each year due to air pollution, yet most emitters do not pay these costs[2].

This is termed the "social cost of carbon" (SCC) and based on estimates from the U.S. governmental Interagency Working Group in 2013, each 1 metric ton of CO2 released is said to have an SCC of around $37 (2007 USD).[3] So even though there is a consensus among most scientists and economists that there should be a carbon price, and companies technically owe around $37/tonne, no one is sure when it will occur or at what price it will be at. This uncertainty and lack of a large scale market is what prevents major private investments into large scale carbon dioxide removal (CDR) technologies.

It is particularly frustrating because if the free market was truly rational, polluters would be paying for the externalities on their CO2 emissions, and the CDR field would blossom. By creating a market themselves and also offering to pay at a range of prices (even though there may be cheaper options available), Stripe can help foster CDR companies when they are most vulnerable, helping them breakthrough their technological learning curves and achieve scale. At the very least, just keeping companies subsidized and advancing technologically until the world corrects this economic error, is a worthy cause.

Having a guaranteed CO2 removal price would allow these companies to just focus on their technology and not have to individually force the global economic system to price carbon, in order to be viable. So again, great job Stripe in starting this, and to other companies/organizations, please start similar initiatives.

[1] "Interesting ideas include crushing rock with natural forces" [https://ProjectVesta.org]

[2] https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/23/health/air-pollution-us-death...

[3] https://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/expertconsensusrepor...

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#88

It's a small step in the grand scheme of things... But it's a huge step (and commitment) coming from a single company. I can honestly say that no company the size of Stripe has even come close to being this "cool" (in a good way, not in a superficial sense) on so many things: company culture, remote-ok, perks, and now environment. At least from my point of view. Kudos. Lots of kudos. Keep the good work, guys. As a si…

Don’t you then need to worry about enforcement mechanisms to keep those trees from getting cut down? If they’re all harvested after say n decades, there’s no net effect on climate.

What? You want them cut down and used in carbon storing areas, like construction. Trees capture way more carbon while growing, so ideally you cut them down and replant them.

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it follow that there's no net effect on climate (or amount of atmospheric carbon) if the tree is cut down? I can only see that if the timber is burned for fuel. If someone instead carved the timber up into N skateboards, modulo waste, the carbon would stay with the skateboards.

Skateboards don't stay skateboards forever. Eventually they'll be thrown out, where they'll degrade & eventually decompose, re-releasing the stored CO2.

Mostly into the ground, no? Isn't that how petroleum was formed in the first place?

Re: Decrement carbon: Stripe's negative emissions commitment

#90
>This leads to Stripe’s Negative Emissions Commitment. We will seek to purchase negative CO2 emissions at any price per tCO2, starting immediately. We expect that the best price will initially be very high: almost certainly more than $100 per tCO2, as compared to the $8 per tCO2 we pay for offsets. We don’t expect to be able to sequester all of our carbon emissions, both because the relevant technologies are not yet operating at sufficient scale, and because it would be financially infeasible for Stripe. And so we commit to spending at least twice as much on sequestration as we do on offsets, with a floor of at least $1M per year.

What is the difference between sequestration and offsets?

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