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Socialite Cordelia Scaife May Spent Her Fortune Trying to Keep Immigrants Out

nytimes.com

71–80 of 84 posts

Re: Socialite Cordelia Scaife May Spent Her Fortune Trying to Keep Immigrants Out

#71

When someone moves from the 3rd world to the US, their CO2 footprint grows enormously. Mass immigration is hugely disruptive to stable job and family formulation. It seems to be supported by mainly by two groups in the US, one that wants cheap exploitable labor, and one that wants to shift American politics by changing the demographics.

I’m a third group: Americans that believe in freedom and liberty, that America is a free country, and that everyone regardless of their race, origin, or class can come here and pursue their happiness like the rest of us.

Wow, I’m surprised by the downvotes. I thought the American dream would be more accepted here. These principles used to be considered basic foundational ideology of the USA.

Re: Socialite Cordelia Scaife May Spent Her Fortune Trying to Keep Immigrants Out

#72
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one in public office or campaign for it supports “oprn borders”, it's only deployed as a strawman of opposite candidates (or sometimes an attack on a real or also strawman position outside of declared candidates) to define oneself against. And, yeah, it's not uncommon for people who have used the strawman to have it used against them. It's not a sign of flip-flopping unless you can find someone endorsing open bord…

Isn't straw man. Kamala Harris has called for defacto open borders, same with Julian Castro. She literally said during the debate no one gets deported, and crossing illegally would be a civil penalty, aka jay walking ticket. You can argue the pros and cons, but clearly she and some of the other candidates are calling for de facto open borders.

> Isn't straw man.

Yes, it is. Specifically, it's most commonly a strawman applied to people who disagree with the speakers’ preferred methods of enforcing immigration law while still supporting the principle of limited legal immigration. As you demonstrate.

> Kamala Harris has called for defacto open borders

No, she hasn't. She's called for decriminalizing crossing outside of designated border crossings (not “crossing illegally”, as there are other illegal crossings—such as crossing at a designated border crossing with false documentation—which is also criminal and she has not called for decriminalizing), but also for continuing to enforce immigration law with civil rather than criminal process (which includes continued use of deportation, which is itself a civil rather than criminal sanction.) This is not open borders, de facto or otherwise.

> same with Julian Castro.

Well, it's the same in that the claim is also not true of Castro, who explicitly called for monitoring and retaining civil penalties for illegal entry and presence including the selective use of deportation, alongside supporting decriminalization of crossing outside designated crossings and assuring that asylum seekers get the hearings they are entitled to under the law.

> She literally said during the debate no one gets deported

No, she literally did not.

> and crossing illegally would be a civil penalty, aka jay walking ticket.

Civil process includes sanctions much more severe than jay walking tickets, including deportation.

Re: Socialite Cordelia Scaife May Spent Her Fortune Trying to Keep Immigrants Out

#73
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prosperity reduces birth rates for a variety of reasons. One of the big drivers of population growth is being a poor farmer and preserving a legacy. Once you have some wealth, the incentives change. My grandparents grew up poor in rural Ireland, my grandmother was one of 12 children and at least 16 pregnancies, born in the WWI era. 9 of the siblings made it to adulthood. They needed people to milk cows and catch fish…

> It keeps salaries lower to reduce inflation and preserves the status quo. That doesn’t seem correct. Waves of Hispanic and Asian immigration has reshaped California from Conservative to _the_ most liberal state. CA also has high minimum wages and much better worker protections than most other states, due to the liberal leaning politicians that got elected.

Enter the right wing "populists".

Why do you think that these folks are so upset about immigration from Latin America and Asia? The old way was to exploit cheap immigrant labor... but after many years, you now have a situation where that immigrant labor is disrupting the status quo.

This has happened before. The same type language directed at Mexican and central american laborers was directed at Irish, Italian, Greek, Chinese and Jewish immigrants in the 19th century. Race, religion, supposed immorality, the same shit. See the Page Act, Chinese Exclusion Act and "Know Nothing Party".

Re: Socialite Cordelia Scaife May Spent Her Fortune Trying to Keep Immigrants Out

#74
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which countries manage just fine? Do those countries’ neighbors have substantially lower performing economies?

Europe has managed to significantly reduce the influx of immigrants from the middle east - as has Israel.

I'm sure there are a great many factors involved in the "reduction" (not prevention) than their own efforts. Examples being, those with opportunity already did so, the Syrian conflict winding down, or ISIS uprooted.

Re: Socialite Cordelia Scaife May Spent Her Fortune Trying to Keep Immigrants Out

#75
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't straw man. Kamala Harris has called for defacto open borders, same with Julian Castro. She literally said during the debate no one gets deported, and crossing illegally would be a civil penalty, aka jay walking ticket. You can argue the pros and cons, but clearly she and some of the other candidates are calling for de facto open borders.

> Isn't straw man. Yes, it is. Specifically, it's most commonly a strawman applied to people who disagree with the speakers’ preferred methods of enforcing immigration law while still supporting the principle of limited legal immigration. As you demonstrate. > Kamala Harris has called for defacto open borders No, she hasn't. She's called for decriminalizing crossing outside of designated border crossings (not “crossi…

You can have your own opinion but doesn't make it a fact. What is a fact is what she said on national TV less than two months ago:

"Harris said people should not be deported if their only offense is living in the United States without documents." https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/28/democratic-debate-...

Coming across would not be a crime. So as long as a person did not commit a crime, they get to stay. that is defacto open borders. It can't get much more clear than that.

you can argue if that is a good or bad thing, but that is what she is for, she said it very clearly.

Re: Socialite Cordelia Scaife May Spent Her Fortune Trying to Keep Immigrants Out

#76
post #44

I assume this article was written because of proposed changes to the green card system hinted at earlier this week. It may be my own bias showing, but is there ever a reason to offer some person permanent residency in the country when you know they will need to go on public assistance right away?

Because permanent residency shouldn't be a privilege granted only to the relatively wealthy.

Most Americans aren't relatively wealthy, but also aren't on food stamps or other public programs.

Re: Socialite Cordelia Scaife May Spent Her Fortune Trying to Keep Immigrants Out

#77
post #44

I assume this article was written because of proposed changes to the green card system hinted at earlier this week. It may be my own bias showing, but is there ever a reason to offer some person permanent residency in the country when you know they will need to go on public assistance right away?

> It may be my own bias showing, but is there ever a reason to offer some person permanent residency in the country when you know they will need to go on public assistance right away?

Every single immigrant visa category in the US immigration system is based on something that has been specifically deemed by the Congress as a reason to offer people admission, permanent residency, and ultimately citizenship in the United States.

So, yes.

Re: Socialite Cordelia Scaife May Spent Her Fortune Trying to Keep Immigrants Out

#78
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because permanent residency shouldn't be a privilege granted only to the relatively wealthy.

Most Americans aren't relatively wealthy, but also aren't on food stamps or other public programs.

As of July 1, 2016, over 80 million Americans, nearly a quarter of the population, was enrolled in Medicaid. [0] (Because someone qualified for other means-tested assistance will almost always also qualify for Medicaid, that's a pretty good rough estimate, though still a lower bound, for the total aid-receiving population at that point in time.)

[0] https://data.medicaid.gov/widgets/x3sw-xby3

Re: Socialite Cordelia Scaife May Spent Her Fortune Trying to Keep Immigrants Out

#79
post #44

I assume this article was written because of proposed changes to the green card system hinted at earlier this week. It may be my own bias showing, but is there ever a reason to offer some person permanent residency in the country when you know they will need to go on public assistance right away?

> It may be my own bias showing, but is there ever a reason to offer some person permanent residency in the country when you know they will need to go on public assistance right away? Every single immigrant visa category in the US immigration system is based on something that has been specifically deemed by the Congress as a reason to offer people admission, permanent residency, and ultimately citizenship in the Unit…

You're just using the law as a proxy for correctness. 180 years ago a similar argument would have said that black people should be chattel because the law says that they should be and Congress passed those laws.

Re: Socialite Cordelia Scaife May Spent Her Fortune Trying to Keep Immigrants Out

#80
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans aren't relatively wealthy, but also aren't on food stamps or other public programs.

As of July 1, 2016, over 80 million Americans, nearly a quarter of the population, was enrolled in Medicaid. [0] (Because someone qualified for other means-tested assistance will almost always also qualify for Medicaid, that's a pretty good rough estimate, though still a lower bound, for the total aid-receiving population at that point in time.) [0] https://data.medicaid.gov/widgets/x3sw-xby3

Okay, so most Americans are not on public assistance. That seems to agree with what I said.
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