Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I feel like im talking to the borg

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 387 posts

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#281

Post by benj111 »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #151
tehjoker wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess would be that it would be because the member is trying to cut an individual deal on a group problem. This is how the capitalist class practices divide and conquer.

As always I'm divided on comments like this. The first half is entirely accurate - it's trying to keep individuals from cutting their own deal and undermining the value of the collective bargaining process. I just don't know if we should start using a framework of class conflict to go along with it. I feel like the point could easily be made without mentioning the "capitalist class", which seems to weaken the argumen…

If capitalist class were replaced with managerial class? Or just management?

That's how I read it as I'm not sure capitalist class makes a whole lot of sense to me in the context, and I'm sure the commies used exactly the same tactics anyway.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#282

Post by duxup »

bairrd wrote: post #254
paideic wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a parroted response used every time someone attempts to meta-analyze the method that allows discourse to propagate. Someone going "ha, you just want to feel superior," is pretty ironic, isn't it? Examining and critizicing communication mediums is an important and valuable thing to do, especially with respect to the internet. Do you truly believe that sound-bite length tweets that focus more on trying "burn" t…

Yet I find the discussion focusing on the meta level of the conversation medium, and not on the higher-order level of society in general, and how a paid collective of actors can overwhelm the power of the individual, to be disingenuous, and potentially a distractionary measure from the far more important conversation around the role of large corporations controlling narratives in our society. It reeks to me of the sa…

If the medium is so bad in practice that it does nothing to address the larger issue you're talking about. I think that is very relevant to both aspects, the medium and the actual issue.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#283

Post by duxup »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #261
duxup wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the whole thread. I was commenting on twitter as a medium.

Any "medium" without strict moderation is a representation of society. You think twitter is toxic, but what is toxic actually - society, people.

The medium absolutely shapes what occurs there, what is discussed and what isn't, and how it is discussed and how it isn't discussed.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#284

Post by CodeCube »

madamelic wrote: post #265
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The past reports on Amazon warehouses call out how strict and automated the management is: that the local managers don't have the authority to really do much in the way of providing flexibility (or humanity) to people.

Also I believe a lot of these warehouses are subcontractors for Amazon.

The worst of excuses for bad behavior, "it wasn't us, it was the subcontractors (that we told to act that way)!"

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#285

Post by EugeneOZ »

mrbombastic wrote: post #275
EugeneOZ wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any "medium" without strict moderation is a representation of society. You think twitter is toxic, but what is toxic actually - society, people.

Society has its own moderation for public discourse, ie laws, social norms, and accountability by virtue of being exposed in public to name a few. So no an unmoderated medium is not a representation of society or at least not an accurate one.

There is no such law "don't be a jerk" or "don't be toxic". You think "social norms" are important to people because they are important to you. But, 1) norms are different in different places, in different social circles; 2) there is a lot of people who don't care what others think or want - some people are capable to sell own kids, some people are closer to the angels, like Keanu Reeves or Tom Hanks :)

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#287

Post by ssully »

runn1ng wrote: post #115

The “ambassadors” are so bad it’s embarrassing. Which leads me to think they are not actually PR professionals (they would actually not talk in such a robotic way), but really low level employees that are paid extra to talk good on social media, and are repeating from some officially sanctioned book of “what you should and shouldn’t say” they don’t sound like Borg, they sound like McDonald’s cashiers, just doing thei…

I've seen them post before, but never in a group inside a long running thread like this before. Seeing their responses and then their profiles (small personal details to humanize them, but most of them follow 0 people) makes it so incredibly creepy.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#288

Post by asark »

madamelic wrote: post #267
asark wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a fallacy. If you're going to talk about profit then you must also consider that the risk and loss also goes to owners while workers get paid either way. I think you're falling into a set pattern of argument rather than looking at what's under examination and considering it on merit. > This is something that should be rather simple to understand in the HN/Startup crowd. Considering that anyone can buy share…

I don't think your point is going to get across. You're talking to basically a huge crowd of well-paid individuals who can and do frequently swap between employment and self-employment, including employing others. The people who these talking points might hit better with are people who don't have the capital, or access to such capital, to be able to do such things.

> I don't think your point is going to get across.

Oh, I'm used to Internet discussions with folks of a certain mindset (I here carefully avoid a convenient, self-selected label that I suspect applies in this case, as its introduction is rarely helpful). They're incredibly common online and usually very eager to engage. Years and years of experience, here. I usually avoid it these days because it's almost always fruitless for all concerned, but felt like giving it a go this time.

> You're talking to basically a huge crowd of well-paid individuals who can and do frequently swap between employment and self-employment, including employing others.

Fussell's class-confused middle by socialized attitude, maybe, coupled with the income and means of his upper-middle and so especially off-kilter. "I'm a doctor, I make good money, I run my own practice, therefore the capitalist class is both what I'm part of and easy to join, so it's a silly and not very useful term". That sort of thing.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#289

Post by the_watcher »

cal5k wrote: post #214
duxup wrote: post #125

I feel like this is twitter in a nutshell, and that goes for everyone involved. The very first response is "eally like? cause your workers are liars?" There we go, now the entire conversation is everything or nothing, you're either with them or against them. Then it's off into personal attacks and arguments about followers and etc. Nobody is talking to each other in any of that. They're just posting for everyone else…

I had to delete Twitter from my phone - I found it would make me angry for no discernible reason, and I'm generally a pretty even-tempered person. Not healthy. Once you detach, you realize quickly that much of Twitter represents a tiny minority of loud, self-righteous people. When "Twitter explodes" in righteous indignation, I feel like the best move would simply be to ignore it and wait for everyone to move on.

I'm right on the edge. That said, there's some parts of Twitter I really enjoy (patio11, for example). But since a lot of his best stuff is hidden in the "Tweets and replies" section of his profile, I rarely get to see it in my feed, so I have to go through the "Search" section and see everything that's "just for me". Which seems to translate to "Just for getting me angry for no discernible reason" a lot of the time.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#290

Post by dragonwriter »

username90 wrote: post #276
Frondo wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's not how unions are structured by law in the US. Every union is shop-based and organized against a specific employer. They usually throw in with a larger union or an association, but not always. This is where the "Local 404" comes from -- the union itself is the local ###, aligned with the national federation. The union at Powell's Books, for example, is a retail union but they're connected to the ILWU, th…

> The cynic in me thinks, if unions were such a bad thing, why wouldn't the owners let them form, burn the employees, and decertify? Because unions gets more powerful than any company and can leverage said power against both workers and employers. Lets take SAG-AFTRA as an example, a union many here at HN says the software industry should mimic. Their contracts with their workers states that the workers are not allow…

> Why would workers not just stop being in the union, since it costs $3k to join and 2% of your salary to stay? Because the entire workforce at a union shop has to quit at once, at the same time the shop has to decide that they are not a union shop any longer.

Or a majority has to elect new leadership in the union who will replace the problematic rules.

Or a majority (either of the whole membership or of workers in a defined subarea) need to vote to decertify (and optionally replace) the union.

Because of these, “everyone has to quit at once” is literally never an issue.

> Also PR and propaganda could easily make workers believe the union is good for them even if it isn't

Sure, but workers opposed to the existing union and employers and union parent organizations competing with the parent of the existing union (or wanting to become the parent of there is no current parent) are all able to deploy “PR and propaganda” (two different names for the same thing) against the established union, too.

Post reply on HN