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India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

nytimes.com

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Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#171

Post by vakataka »

iamshs wrote: post #146
thanks1banks2 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is a secular state. We treat all religions with equal respect. This is in the constitution. This issue is an internal matter following due process within our parliamentary framework.

If India is so secular why is there a tax law called Hindu Undivided Family or HUF, which Muslims cannot use to reduce their taxable income? How can a damn tax law be applicable on basis of religion? If it is so secular then why does Indian Constitution term Buddhists, Jains and Sikhs under Hindu religion umbrella. Since when is it for the constitution to define religions? If India is so secular than why does it ban…

FYI, Indian Muslims have their own personal law while the rest of the population follows uniform civil code. They get Hajj subsidies and other perks that no other community gets. As for taking refugees, a country can deny entry based on any number of reasons. In 2018, the number of refugees taken in by the US has gone down. That doesn't mean US is less secular. I agree Indian constitution is not the most secular but it definitely is not anti-minority.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#172

Post by abhchand »

kobiguru wrote: post #13
statguy wrote: post #2

I think it is pretty clear that the Indian Government rushed into this because this is what their Hindu-nationalistic base wants - subdue the only Muslim Indian majority state. However, just like their ill-fated demonetization policy from 2016, they haven't given a whole lot of thought to what happens the day after. How long will they keep these restrictions? How far are they prepared to go if there is a mass uprisin…

Preventative measures are necessary for the kind of thing it can spark. The change is not like demonetisation rather a well thought and long-held demand of the present government. It has been there in the election manifesto since they started publishing election manifesto. The new york times is entitled to its view on how India's elected government ought to run the country but that does not mean the government is goi…

> The other thing that is ignored is that for seventy years Kashmir has gotten the biggest share of the central government's outlays for states and they have nothing to show for

This is a poor view of how areas should be funded. Governments are responsible for common welfare of a people, not to be run as a business that expects kickbacks and profit or returns on investment.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#173

Post by wtmt »

saagarjha wrote: post #3

Shutting down the internet in an effort to "keep the peace" is really dystopian: how do Indian citizens stand for it?

Indian citizens, at least the progressive thinking ones, do not stand for shutting down the Internet connectivity for any purpose, more so since the governments (central and state) have been doing it without transparency and without strong laws or enforcement to protect freedoms.

Internet Freedom Foundation [1][2] has been trying to make this a thing of the past, but it's very early days. As a tangential example, postal services are stopped in Kashmir now. Nobody is able to find the exact government order that made this possible. This is despite having RTI (Right to Information, the equivalent to the US FoIA). That's the sad level of governance going on for a long time in the country.

Majoritarian views — that prefer less freedom — on social media and broadcast media like TV don't help the situation much.

[1]: https://internetfreedom.in

[2]: https://twitter.com/internetfreedom

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#174

Post by mycall »

iamshs wrote: post #143
Arun2009 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it is pretty clear that the Indian Government rushed into this because this is what their Hindu-nationalistic base wants - subdue the only Muslim Indian majority state. Abrogation of Kashmir's special status has been a top agenda of the BJP for the past few decades. They are pretty big on "national unity", and they see the special status for Kashmir as going against this principle. They want Kashmir fully i…

You know what else has been a top agenda for BJP? Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan. That is, single language, single religion, single nation. BJP is a Hindu Nationalist party, and just because it is in their manifesto doesn’t mean it should have been fulfilled. The question to ask is, why is in their manifesto when there are other regions in India with similar laws? It is in their manifesto because Kashmir is a Muslim majorit…

When I look at "What are the Most Spoken Languages in the World?"[0], I see so many in or around India, I can understand the need for unification of languages.

[0] https://www.fluentin3months.com/most-spoken-languages

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#175

Post by eklavya »

selimthegrim wrote: post #108
statguy wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more brutal and widespread ethnic cleansing, which India conveniently likes to brush under the carpet, was that of Muslims from the Jammu in 1947. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_Jammu_massacres

Mehr Chand Mahajan quoted in that article went on to Supreme Court of India. 370 allowed 100K of those refugees to be rehabilitated. When there was the possibility of more returning in 1980s, Indira Gandhi showed up and accused NC of bringing in 'anti-nationals'. But please, Modi bhakts, tell us more about how 370 isn't necessary.

"But please, Modi bhakts", treat differing opinions with a bit of tolerance and respect, shall we?

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#176

Post by eklavya »

saagarjha wrote: post #3

Shutting down the internet in an effort to "keep the peace" is really dystopian: how do Indian citizens stand for it?

In my city Jaipur, there was internet shutdown for last 3 days in some areas because communal tensions flared up and situation had to be brought under control. I stand by it because putting myself in the administration's shoes, I know for a fact that you WILL have a lot of casualties if you don't do that. It's a sad reality.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#177

Post by kbad1000 »

iamshs wrote: post #143
Arun2009 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it is pretty clear that the Indian Government rushed into this because this is what their Hindu-nationalistic base wants - subdue the only Muslim Indian majority state. Abrogation of Kashmir's special status has been a top agenda of the BJP for the past few decades. They are pretty big on "national unity", and they see the special status for Kashmir as going against this principle. They want Kashmir fully i…

You know what else has been a top agenda for BJP? Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan. That is, single language, single religion, single nation. BJP is a Hindu Nationalist party, and just because it is in their manifesto doesn’t mean it should have been fulfilled. The question to ask is, why is in their manifesto when there are other regions in India with similar laws? It is in their manifesto because Kashmir is a Muslim majorit…

That's pure lies and propaganda. The brutal atrocities in past by invaders should not be forgiven, however, this doesn't mean to hate the descendents. It is BJP which abolished Tripple Talaq, it is BJP which decriminalized homosexuality (Congress did not because it would hurt their voter base of Muslims), it is BJP, which is giving benefits on the basis of income, etc. Kashmir was and is integral part of India and it's culture. While we are on this no news outlets dared to talk about the genocide of thousands of Hindus, Buddhists and Suffis in Kashmir since 1989 by the Pakistan sponsored Islamic Terrorists. If one comes on the ground instead of reading propaganda from news outlets dominated by Hinduphobic pessimists, it'll be better. And to be clear NYT, BBC, Al-Jazeera, Bloomberg and even DW have anti-India sentiments because of lobbying and the vested interests. It is the Hindu philosophy which is the most inclusive and that is why India was and is most diverse nation on the planet and not any Western nation.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#178

Post by BurningFrog »

wtmt wrote: post #149
jefftk wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Satellite internet, with batteries or a generator, works even when local conflict shuts down pretty much everything else.

Satellite Internet access would also be shutdown in a scenario like this, since it would be the government permitting or denying who operates a satellite to provide such services and the associated spectrum used...unless other countries or individuals are able to put up satellites to help people in oppressive regimes (slightly similar to the concept of Tor). Is there something like this? Perhaps neighboring countries…

Shooting down foreign satellites is an act of war, and very few countries have that capability.

Iridium is an existing satellite phone system that will technically work anywhere on the planet.

It won't complete calls to certain countries, and they warn that the phone might get confiscated in a few others: https://globalcomsatphone.com/support7/

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#179

Post by Spooky23 »

twerkinggumby wrote: post #134
Spooky23 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internet is far more critical than gasoline or even electricity. Everything is IP based, and processes for just about everything are dependent on some random service in AWS. In a significant civil unrest event, it would be very feasible for a prepared party to create widespread disruption on a regional level.

Tell me: how do you get the internet without electricity?

The relevance of electricity depends on the scope.

Most institutions have continuity plans that allow them to function, perhaps in a degraded state, with widespread power failures. Hospitals will be functioning, cellular towers will be running, first responders will function and at least basic commerce can carry on. That “limp along” period ranges from days to weeks.

There are also different types of electrical outages. A hurricane or earthquake can wipe out infrastructure. Civil unrest may cause disruption. Open warfare will cause more strategic disruption and limit restoration.

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