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Why is modern web development so complicated?

vrk.dev

721–730 of 731 posts

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#721

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Off topic this but your phrase "lest the Scotsmen come by" intrigued me. It sounds vaguely idiomatic but I don't know the reference. Any enlightenment available?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Thanks for the link. No true Scotsman would have been so kind!

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#722

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>>>>Software is the only industry where you are asked to build systems that have never been built before but that are more complex than anything ever built in the history of "mature industries" Anyone engineering hypersonic missiles would easily dispute that.[1] Or submarine-capable quantum communication systems.[2] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/magazine/hypersonic-missi... [2] https://www.realcleardefense.c…

There are occasionally novel engineering projects. These will be millions of dollars and years over budget, and then will fail. All their "mature industry standards and procedures and certifications" wont' save them.

It's unwise to extrapolate the US defense industry's procurement problems onto the Russians and Chinese. There's reasonable evidence to suggest the Russian Kinzhal and Zircon hypersonic missiles are already Working As Designed, or fairly close to it.[1][2]

[1]https://www.scmp.com/news/world/russia-central-asia/article/...

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M22_Zircon

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#723
post #210

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The problem with that, is that flash even as an IDE was not really suited our new responsive web. Its not really good for content or development of anything other than games, animations and ads.

Did you ever develop with Flex? MXML and CSS + ActionScript was a great way to design webapps, and if phones actually ran flash, apps and components could be just as responsive as anything modern. The closest JS ever got to it was Angular 1, but then the Angular folks changed course and whatever version it's at now is very different. My current favorite is the ClojureScript ecosystem, but it's even more different tha…

Actually I must admit that I never really gave flex a chance. Don't get me wrong, I miss the flash days as well, its actually kind of sad that open source player / recompiler projects never really got anywhere.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#724

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Honest Question, how do I support our IE 11 Customers (8% of our MRR) with this approach?

Alas, about 50% of mine. Many government and healthcare organizations STILL using Internet Exploder, presumably until its 2025 end of life:-(

2025 end of life for IE11? Do you have a source for that?

As far as I know, Microsoft plans to keep IE11 around as long as Windows exists.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#725

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Connectivity is not always available, and errors retrieving it may mean you have to re-enter everything. Being able to "navigate" the site without the dinosaur is a tremendous boon for end users. You wouldn't be able to send anything without a connection, but you could buffer it for an opportune moment. Sites like HN and Stackoverflow have a vastly different audience than most bread-and-butter sites, and tackle diffe…

Most bread-and-butter sites are just fine as server-side rendered page. Large client-side frameworks reimplementing the browser and server functionality should be rare, when the situation actually calls for it. If you really need a offline site then a simple service worker is all you need to cache the pages, not a big JS app.

"Big JS app"'s aren't that big if done correctly. The entirety of Angular8 fits into ~170KB, less than some thumbnails.

You can write bad apps in any language and environment, similarly a site/app is not bad just because it's done in Y.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#726
post #473

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Ugh. You've basically made the case for me doing my next project in c++ 17 instead of using it as an excuse to learn Rust. Im morally opposed to c++....

isn't protection against de-referencing null pointers a good reason?

In C++'s defence, the language itself doesn't mandate any protections here (the famous 'undefined behaviour'), but there's no reason your compiler can't add automatic runtime checking against illegal use of null. GCC supports it with "-fsanitize=null" [0]

[0] https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Instrumentation-Options.h...

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#727
post #673

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Yeah, but I've been around the block enough times to avoid those types of bugs.

It's much more than just null pointer dereferencing. Time and time again, it's been proven that Rust protects even very experienced C++ programmers from bugs they didn't realize they're even making.

This is a good point. Personal assurances count for little. No-one is above writing buggy code. Even C/C++ codebases written by very expert programmers, often have pointer-based bugs, especially if large and complex. Operating systems and drivers, for instance.

As well as having free-form pointers, C/C++ also have many, many dark corners.

What proportion of C++ programmers know that comparison = (c == c++); causes undefined behaviour?

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#728

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My background is mainly frontend, but I'm well versed in backend as well. I've been actively advocating at my company to stop with this whole separate frontend and backend, and instead just return plain HTML and some basic JavaScript when needed. In most of my personal projects I've been following this approach too, and I must say, I'm so much more productive. I don't find myself constantly switching between browser-…

I built a SPA and found making the API and linking everything up to be needless overhead. The way I find works best is using rails templates to simply insert a div with all the data needed in the attributes and then having react render everything.

That's what we used to do years ago, just render a script tag with all the data required, and then use JavaScript to link it up in the views. But I feel if that's what you're doing, you might as well use a templating engine, and put all the data where it belongs.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#729

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I'm not sure if I fully agree with your point about developers or managers not wanting to suggest they aren't needed. You're argument relies on the idea that most business needs could be sufficiently met by static html doesn't really fit how businesses works. If a business in an industry has additional functionality on their page that gives them an edge beyond just text on a page, then it is needed. Additionally, whe…

While this is occasionally true, I believe it is most of the time not true. Many, many features (e.g. endless scrolling) get pushed out to consumers who don't want it. By and large, consumers of websites want text and images. The push to put embedded video, lots of ajaxy updating of content, etc. has happened on countless newspaper, magazine, and other websites where all the consumer wants is the words and the images…

I'm sure there is some research that validates that endless scrolling increases user engagement. High user engagement leads to high user exposition, something that marketers are attracted to and spend lots of money to put their ads, and there you go, more profit due to this feature

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#730

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The real metric of quality is does it do what you expected. PHP is a gun that sometimes shoots backwards with no sensible reason where as rust has a gyroscope that can work out when the gun is pointing at your face and requires that you turn off the safety first. Entire classes of bugs simply don't exist in better languages.

Well, yes. You can write a web application in Haskell and enjoy the beautiful and flexible type system, first order functions, monads and all the other wonderful things. But you shouldn't. Because when you leave, the client will never be able to find someone to maintain the damn thing and chances are they will hire someone else to rewrite it yet again in PHP. And possibly hire someone to make a voodoo doll of you and…

You can also write your application in Ruby or Python or Java or Go
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