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Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

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Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#231

Post by Smithalicious »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #119
mrec wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The internet has turned to garbage. The ad-supported internet has turned to garbage. The academic and hobbyist internet is fine, and not that much different from the old days. The governmental internet depends a lot on where you are, but .gov.uk is really rather good, and vastly better at what it does than snailmail and Post Offices were in the old days.

> The academic and hobbyist internet is fine, and not that much different from the old days. YouTube, and dreams of monetization, have infected the hobbyist internet too. I am active in some niche travel hobbies. It used to be that people in this subculture would write detailed text blogs with tips about various routes and definitions. Now, people think video is the default medium for sharing one’s information, and s…

People just go to where the audience is. I've considered both starting a blog and starting a YouTube channel, and realized that if I actually want people to see my content then only YouTube makes sense. After all, I don't even follow any blogs myself!

Maybe one day there will be a platform that makes following blogs as convenient as following youtubers

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#232

Post by eclipxe »

cheese4242 wrote: post #226
untog wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He hasn't actually presented any meaningful evidence and is a kook that believes in QAnon. So excuse me if I'm more than a little dubious of his claims. https://www.thedailybeast.com/james-okeefes-google-whistlebl...

Well he handed over 950 pages of docs and a laptop to the Department of Justice so we just might find out.

The 950 pages were posted to Project Veritas. I read each single doc. It was a load of nothing. Not a single piece of evidence that points to his claims.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#233

Post by eclipxe »

fromthestart wrote: post #155
solotronics wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is pretty obvious that things like search results are manipulated to fit an agenda. Search Google Images for "white american family" and "black american family" and compare the results. You can replace "black american family" with indian or any other group and the results are similar. There are many interracial couples under "white american family" and none under "black american family". The only way I can explain…

Project veritas leaked a candid, hidden camera chat with Google's Head of Responsible Innovation, Jen Gennai, where, essentially, she and an engineer shamelessly describe using ML to manipulate search results to better align them with the reality that they would like society to adopt, i.e., a strongly left leaning agenda. Among other topics, she specifically mentioned that Google is working against "another 2016 situ…

The content is not damning at all and the "2016 situation" is clearly taken out of context - it is referring to Russian manipulation and fake news.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#234

Post by shakna »

root_axis wrote: post #207
cgio wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They perform work, their work is reviewed and subjected to standards and they expect return. Both work and compensation are subject to contractual terms.

> They perform work At their own behest, not through any formal agreement or obligation from YouTube - YouTube only enters the picture after the producer decides to upload their content to YouTube and they don't have to do that. > Their work is reviewed and subjected to standards and they expect return Google offers creators a place to upload their videos for free, it does not offer any guarantees regarding returns.

Is this not true of most art?

Yet most galleries can't simply stop asking for payment with admission without also compensating the artist.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#235

Post by untog »

cheese4242 wrote: post #226
untog wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He hasn't actually presented any meaningful evidence and is a kook that believes in QAnon. So excuse me if I'm more than a little dubious of his claims. https://www.thedailybeast.com/james-okeefes-google-whistlebl...

Well he handed over 950 pages of docs and a laptop to the Department of Justice so we just might find out.

He handed them to Project Veritas, which is maybe even more of a joke than he is. Have you actually read any of the documents are you relying on right wing media to interpret them for you?

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#236

Post by egypturnash »

root_axis wrote: post #210
egypturnash wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like there is a line to be drawn somewhere around the points where you start referring to yourself as a "YouTuber" and where other people regularly describe you as one. More broadly, this same line may exist for any site/company somewhere around the point where whatever awkward construction for "person who regularly posts on site X" or "person who regularly does gig work for company X" starts getting applied t…

> I feel like there is a line to be drawn somewhere around the points where you start referring to yourself as a "YouTuber" and where other people regularly describe you as one. This seems pretty subjective, difficult to measure, and impractical to enforce.

Which is why I said "I have no idea how to define this in legal terms".

I would bet money that something can be nailed down in terms of what percentage of time goes into it, what percentage of total income comes from it, and other hard measures like that, if you feel like surveying a few hundred self-described You-Tubers and a few hundred non-You-Tubers. That sure sounds like work I don't feel like doing, though.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#237

Post by preommr »

Isn't this kind of good for youtube? They've been struggling with better organization and would probably like to deal with one collective than many small youtubers. It would probably help with things like better overall quality, better understanding of legal issues like parodies, better communication, etc.

In a worst case scenario, how much can a union even hurt youtube? If they decided to go on strike, the barrier to entry is so low that people would easily fill up the void until the issue got resolved. Not to mention a lot of videos are things from tv shows and music videos that probably wouldn't be part of this union.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#238

Post by paulddraper »

nordsieck wrote: post #170
La-ang wrote: post #162

Can youtubers go on strike and take the content down for a limited time? If such an option is available and they do it, it would be a relevant strike. But since those who are joining the Union are the one demonetized provides that Youtube isn't making as much profit from their presence as those who are still running ads. In such case, the former ones will need a way to engage those who make profit align with their do…

> Can youtubers go on strike and take the content down for a limited time? In order for that to be effective, a strike needs to remove enough capability from the other party to materially affect them. In this case, with so many videos online, I'd bet creators would need to get perhaps 95%-99% of recent videos taken down. They won't get anywhere close. Right out of the gate, news and music won't join in the strike. Al…

> I'd bet creators would need to get perhaps 95%-99% of recent videos taken down

These are not factory workers or hotel cleaners. Videos are not fungible.

Hard to scab, especially in the short-term.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#239

Post by autoexec »

dragonwriter wrote: post #225
autoexec wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

monetization is the payment scheme at issue. Some creators get paid, some of the time, and a lot of content creators on youtube feel the whole system is unfair. That's why they are unionizing. For what it's worth I'm not a big fan of monetization on youtube in general. I prefer content to be posted out of a passion to share than a profit motive and for supporters to support content creators directly, but I also objec…

> Without the content creators youtube is worthless Without ads YouTube is worthless to Google. Nonmonetized content isn't bringing revenue to Google. Sure, it has an indirect benefit in making YouTube a more attractive place to post monetized content, by it's not like creators get nothing out of it (which is why they post to YouTube rather than arranging other hosting, which is certainly valuable if less likely to b…

> Without ads YouTube is worthless to Google. Nonmonetized content isn't bringing revenue to Google. S

Google gets huge volumes of valuable data with nearly every video that's uploaded. Google knows things like who the uploader is, what kind of people are in their home and their approximate ages, what clothes they wear, what products they buy, what pets they own, what interests they have.

They also get data on every visitor who views those videos, such as what their interests are or where/when/how often they watched a video or channel. All of that data makes their non-youtube ads more valuable because they can offer the guy watching videos on how to train a puppy dog food ads instead of ads for horse saddles. Youtube doesn't need ads to be a powerful tool for surveillance and data collection capable of bringing google revenue.

I agree that youtubers are getting something out of it too, mostly easier exposure and very simple hosting, but google needs content more than it needs one more place to shove their ads in our faces since much of the rest of the internet is happy to let google put their ads on their own websites.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#240

Post by patrioticaction »

pwinnski wrote: post #178
patrioticaction wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are arguing that there is anything resembling a perfect market for YouTube video content. Talk about a departure from reality.

I'm not sure why this is hard for you to understand. Is your contention that nobody popular has ever stopped making videos on YouTube? Or that YouTube has already lost a large chunk of viewers due to popular former-YouTubers no longer making videos? Neither of those statements are true, but you seem to be commenting as if one or the other are. I'm not arguing that the YouTube market is perfect, but that the gap betwe…

The reason top YouTube content is so good is because creators have spent many years honing their skill and building relationships. That can’t be easily replaced and I also must say that the revenue of College Humors’s Dropout service is an indication of a lost opportunity for YouTube. If done in larger amounts, it could be death by a thousand cuts. Plenty of reason to come to the negotiating table.
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