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Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

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Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#121
post #97

What they should do is collectively take their content somewhere else. As an aside, I'm seeing the same pattern at Amazon. People thought they were opening a business on amazon selling retail. Then amazon started selling the profitable products themselves, storing the products themselves, ... basically doing more and more of the work and taking more control and taking money from the people who helped them become powe…

>The internet has been ruined by the mainstream and the money grubbers. Predatory practical monopolies and outdated labor laws functioning as intended. This is one of the under-appreciated aspects of capitalism: the profit motive encourages the unscrupulous to surface ethical holes in the market. If only we were principled enough to do something with this information.

Yes! That's what I'm getting at! The reality of Youtube is that it made it easier to upload videos. The amount of time it takes to learn how to do that and build your own content distribution mechanism isn't really that hard. Most of us around here could do it in a day or two using FFMPEG and amazon buckets.

It actually does in fact take less time to build something to share your own content than it does to create the content itself.

That's why I don't understand why does airbnb take 10% of the transaction? They are just a website. Why does Apple take 30%? They are just a search engine.

And google makes something like $1.2 million per employee. How much of that on average does the google employee get to keep? Is it more or less than content creators?

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#122
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can take a look at SAG-AFTRA, the Screen Actors Guild, to see how it will play out. Turns out that every movie star alive today is a union member, and they have no problem asking for special benefits and receiving them.

It will be interesting to see if that is in fact how it plays out. A lot of the unions that are tied to trying to make progress in tech related fields are not at all like the screen actors guild. They often operate in a way where benefits are tied to simple things like seniority or prescribed certifications and etc.

Which unions in particular?

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#123

What they should do is collectively take their content somewhere else. As an aside, I'm seeing the same pattern at Amazon. People thought they were opening a business on amazon selling retail. Then amazon started selling the profitable products themselves, storing the products themselves, ... basically doing more and more of the work and taking more control and taking money from the people who helped them become powe…

> Now Youtube is doing the same. They used focus on being a search and distribution mechanism. Now they produce content, allow sponsorships, have more ads per minute of viewing then television, ... jobs there are again, repackaging jobs. Repackage scenes from movies, previews, upload documentaries, sports clips...

This. I remember when getting a single ad in YouTube was news. Or an unstoppable ad. Now I've bumped into videos that have close to an ad a minute.

Moreover, you can feel how in order to keep up with the algorithm YouTubers have forsaken creativity and landed in just clickbaity thumbnails and repeating their formulas. I know YouTubers have been saying this for years, but it finally hit me like cold water recently. There used to be so much clever, creative content on YouTube but now so much of what I see in my home page is content that's shallow and uninspired at best from channels I'm not subscribed to.

And YouTubers have to make this sort of content! If your lively-hood and/or relevance depends on putting videos out every day, you're just gonna find an idea that worked "well enough" and repeat it for weeks.

> They both grew through the expansion of the long tail. The reality is: where are people in the long tail going to go to sell their repackaged stuff?

I wish other platforms like IGTV or Vimeo had taken off. I think there's things Snapchat and Twitter could try for video. Snapchat could experiment with longer-form, edited content for blogs, as a compliment to stories. Twitter is already where personalities are and there's already plenty of video content uploaded there. Facebook seems to want to have a solid go at video, but it feels like they're completely lost. What is Facebook Watch? It has random content from pages but also shows trying to compete with Netflix?

> The internet has turned to garbage. You're better off going to the library like the old days. The internet has been ruined by the mainstream and the money grubbers.

As much as I dislike a lot of what the internet has become, I still don't think this is the case. I don't remember the time of old as better days, TV was (and kinda still is) pretty terrible. The internet is also for much more than just entertainment. Sure, read a book instead of going on YouTube, I agree with that. I'm also very thankful that I am not limited to what's in a library to learn about random topics because I can just click through science sites or Wikipedia.

Though there's certainly a lot the ambition for money and building empires has changed for the worse.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#124
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The internet has turned to garbage. The ad-supported internet has turned to garbage. The academic and hobbyist internet is fine, and not that much different from the old days. The governmental internet depends a lot on where you are, but .gov.uk is really rather good, and vastly better at what it does than snailmail and Post Offices were in the old days.

I went to a government website the other day. 5 pages of forms I filled out several times. Each time on the final page, "system error, cannot proceed." I called the agency, they said, "You should print out the PDF, fill that out and bring it to our office." Can you believe that?? There aren't enough programmers to make the .gov stuff work right because FAANG is buying them all. So, I'm not sure you are right on that.

Government offices don't just lose on salary, but also on working conditions.

Secondhand anecdotes recount fistfights in the office and the unfireable-until-the-election official viewing porn during working hours and continually infecting their desktop and the intranet with malware.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#125

This is mostly just people like Jörg Sprave and Taofledermaus types, that are angry their videos of making improvised weapons and improvised ammunition, getting demonetized or removed. This started early last year when Jörg got fed up with losing money and getting strikes against videos on his channel. For context he was most famous for his fantastically powerful homemade slingshots, he then started doing stuff like…

... no actually, not just people making weapons are getting demonetized. Everyone, across the board, is getting demonetized seemingly at random and with no explanation. A video can be demonetized if the cellphone of someone in that video's ringtone is a popular song. Even worse, they don't get demonetized and become the property of the person who wrote the song...

> not just people making weapons are getting demonetized.

I didn't state that, I gave context as to how this union thing started. One specific user was upset his videos showing him defeating law enforcement armor with homemade projectile weapons was demonetized and took offense.

Some of the channels that immediately started supporting him were channels like Taofledermaus (as I said above, along with why they were getting demonetized) and pepole like Cody of Cody's Lab (that had federal agents search his property after some of his videos involving his handling and piss-poor storage of radioactive materials, the poisons literally on a shelf with his canned garden produce and him nearly blowing his own finger/hand off smacking home-made nitro with a knife), months after he quickly walked through an airport recording himself with his phone literally talking about blowing himself up) that also had videos demonetized.

Besides, it is entirely YouTube's right to demonetize videos and entire accounts. YouTube is NOT a hosting provider, content creators are NOT customers. YouTube is an advertising platform and the advertisers are the customers.

If I want to advertise my widget, maybe I don't want it being uploaded to people that crush things with a hydraulic press or people that are overly political or people that are making weapons or people that are editing movie trailers together to be other genres.

There are gobs and gobs of content creators that receive their funding via Patreon/YouTube's Patreon clone/selling merch etc.

These creators have never paid YouTube a single cent to store and host their videos, not one. When you create an account, YouTube does not promise to make you rich by sending you truckloads of money for people watching you and your boyfriend record you talking about your rescue dog or having a 'muckbang' or painting (Jenna Marbles and Julien).

No one is forcing content creators to upload to YouTube, they are more than welcome to PAY another service to host their videos.

YouTube is not some inherent right, YouTube servers don't grow in the wild, if YouTube wants to take 99.99% of the money the top creator's videos make, that's their right especially given there are millions and millions of people uploading hundreds of hours of video per MINUTE that are costing YouTube more to store and host than they'll likely ever recover from the bulk of creators.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a government website the other day. 5 pages of forms I filled out several times. Each time on the final page, "system error, cannot proceed." I called the agency, they said, "You should print out the PDF, fill that out and bring it to our office." Can you believe that?? There aren't enough programmers to make the .gov stuff work right because FAANG is buying them all. So, I'm not sure you are right on that.

Your assumption that this is happening because those engineers are less skilled is completely wrong. I've worked at both private and govt. the problem in Govt is that resources just go towards the wrong projects. and things that could be fixed never do get fixed due to bureaucracy and regulations. engineers working for gov sometimes are forced to use the worst tools imaginable: often due to regulations (the tools/sof…

Believe me when I say there is a lot of money to be made making it easier for people to package information to give to the government. Yes, the government should spend more money on IT.

I agree with you. This is just a huge side conversation.

Also, there is a TON of great educational content on youtube produced by governments. Google won't show me those videos on web pages at the government website, but they'll show me the youtube video with ads on it.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#127
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ost advertisers don't want to touch a guy showing how to defeat riot shields with homemade crossbows I 'm not sure anymore if "advertisers" dont want to advertise on non-mainstream or adult sites, or if it's just google imposing arbitrary standards on both their advertisers AND publishers. In the old times of TV there were brands that catered to specific, non-family friendly audiences (e.g. cigarettes, alcohol). Wi…

Go check out the ads on some non-mainstream or adult sites. They're the epitome of This is why we use ad blockers.

Exactly. There is no way for these sites to reach mainstream advertisers who might be interested. Google has the keys to all of them

Similar with payment processors. Nudity or even porn is increasingly accepted today, yet paypal won't touch it, so these sites have to deal with subpar and expensive payment providers

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ost advertisers don't want to touch a guy showing how to defeat riot shields with homemade crossbows I 'm not sure anymore if "advertisers" dont want to advertise on non-mainstream or adult sites, or if it's just google imposing arbitrary standards on both their advertisers AND publishers. In the old times of TV there were brands that catered to specific, non-family friendly audiences (e.g. cigarettes, alcohol). Wi…

I think the major advertisers, that is those that bring in lots of money, generally want family friendly, uncontroversial, middle of the road. They don't want war, violence, crime, extreme politics, mental illness etc associated with their brand. Google is likely just making the decision that niches aren't worth the (potential, legal) trouble.

> Google is likely just making the decision

Google should not be making the decision, advertisers should

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#129
post #72

Fundamentally I think the problem is that these platforms are not neutral, when YouTube's algorithm hoists your video to the front page they are "manipulating" the system. Personally, I would not be surprised to see Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act challenged on this notion and it as the basis for other challenges. Internet providers just serve bits, any effort to "manipulate" those bits based on who is…

It is pretty obvious that things like search results are manipulated to fit an agenda. Search Google Images for "white american family" and "black american family" and compare the results. You can replace "black american family" with indian or any other group and the results are similar. There are many interracial couples under "white american family" and none under "black american family". The only way I can explain…

> The only way I can explain this is there is manipulation of the algorithm to fit a certain perspective.

Unless... the two search terms have different distributions in their raw, unbiased results which seems completely plausible to me.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#130
post #72

Fundamentally I think the problem is that these platforms are not neutral, when YouTube's algorithm hoists your video to the front page they are "manipulating" the system. Personally, I would not be surprised to see Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act challenged on this notion and it as the basis for other challenges. Internet providers just serve bits, any effort to "manipulate" those bits based on who is…

Here's an excellent video breaking down with extremely compelling data how the "trending" tab is very heavily manipulated in favor of mainstream media sources: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDqBeXJ8Zx8 What's interesting is that extreme bias in the US is not seen in Canada. Though I'm not sure it's stated in the video, I think that Youtube has been propping up MSM sources so that they can make themselves seem more…

It's hypocritical of YT to be selling the dream of ad based revenue for their content creators when YT themselves are trying to get away from it.

If YT is moving to subscription services, shouldn't the content creators be thinking like that too?

It's also ... unright to be moving toward MSM when they are supposed to be the people's way to share video content.

YT is becoming NBC or HBO, but without all the regulations those MSM distributors have to follow. I want real closed-captions on all my content for example, so I can listen to my own music during the video instead of whatever music the content creator preferred -- like I can with TV.

Of course YT would say, "There's too much content, we can't be expected to CC everything."

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