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Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

thinkautomation.com

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Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which calls into question the whole idea that democracy even works and that people can actually think for themselves and aren't just controlled by whatever propaganda happens to show up in front of their faces. I don't even argue politics with people any more because it's almost 100% what news sources they trust and find credible. It's all just rumor and innuendo these days. Those news sources trust and find credible…

Democracy (in the general sense) works just fine. It relies on groups of people of a certain geographic area physically getting out and interacting. Democracy isn't some guy living in his closet plugged into the web and making life choices based on AI-selected video streams. That's some kind of transhumanist nightmare. AI is an extinction-level threat to humanity, but when you say that, people think you're talking ab…

I use to ask people what the right software was for a task. (I still do at times) The answers explained what people liked about the software they used but an objective A vs B was rare and it didn't do justice to the rest of the set.

Out of curiosity I decided to install every IRC client I could find. Connect to a few servers, open a good number of channels and learn to use them one by one while looking at memory and cpu usage.

Like many I have deep thoughts. Mine are as hard to find for their potential audience as the many are for me. We do however pay a lot of attention to people who make a lot of noise.

I had this hypothesis that people would copy other peoples political ideology that are copies from that of others in long chains that, rather than start with a persons deep objective thoughts, are just connected in loops long enough for us not to notice - with a number of thinking nodes insignificant to the result. [lets call them dictator nodes for laughs]

In order to test this rather absurd hypothesis I took the entire list of US presidential candidates and looked at their social media.

This quickly confirmed the loops to exist, fuck, my hypothesis was optimistic compared to reality. I found that close to 100% had facebook pages and youtube channels that didn't enjoy enough traffic to account for friends and close relatives of the person.

Eventually I worked my way up to the green party, they had 250 views on their youtube channel. I wondered about the meaning of it.... what does it mean?

I think it means even journalists didn't bother to look at it. The huge apparatus of international journalism did not bother to look at the top 5 candidates most screamed about while I took a look at a really large number of them.

For democracy to work we ALL need to look at the menu then make up our own mind. In stead what we got is NO ONE looking at the ideas. If 99% of the population had exactly the same opinion about everything and one of us would write it into a political program no one would vote for it.

The point I'm trying to get to is this: We've already build the machine that contains us. Small groups of people who cared about something gathered and implemented their ideas. These things are now bolted down so firmly that unmaking their actions takes such an absurd unrealistic amount of effort that we can at best imagine doing it. We have millions of implementations like that and they are here to stay. It doesn't even need to be stupid. The idea could have been brilliant 200 years ago.

The stupidity in Artificial-stupidity will not be in the AI, the system will continue to "liberate" humans from having to think deeply which will move us further from a position of influence. If it does a bad job it will actually be beneficial to the end result.

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aristotle also believed that some men were supposed to be slaves and that women held no intellectual value. So he can be wrong about things too.

So are you suggesting that if someone was mistaken in one line of reasoning or idea, that they are necessarily wrong on all? If not... what's your point caller? All I can see in your statement is someone trying to avoid challenging an idea they don't like on its merits. Actually, I'm surprised at how many participants in public discourse today, especially amongst the so called "educated" classes, actually are willing…

No of course not.

I'm saying that he might not be right all the time, not that he is definitely wrong all of the time. It is possible that his "democracy is fundamentally broken" beliefs are correct, but we shouldn't just say "ooh Aristotle was smart and believed this so its a reasonable claim" and move on.

I think he is wrong about democracy and I bring up other cases where he is wrong so people will think twice about his beliefs about democracy.

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#83
post #68
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't blame democracy for the sins of pseudodemocracy.

How to you tell one from the other, especially when you’re inside one?

Lets see some examples

Everybody is allowed to vote, as long as they are white: Felt like a real democracy but is a fake

Everybody is allowed to vote, except women. Felt like "the best democracy" once upon a time, but is also fake. Not even a half democracy.

Many of the things that today are normal could (and will) be deeply embarrasing in the future and so similar to a real democracy as a plastic imitation of a turd coated in glitter.

A real democracy is difficult to find, but really easy to spot. Must fulfill this three rules: 1) One adult citizen, one vote 2) All citizens are equal and therefore all of their (legally issued) votes score the same. No votes can count double or x100. The only vote scoring less than other is the x0 blank vote. AND 3) everybody can apply for candidate if they desire so, and participate on an equal footing.

If one of this three rules can't apply you have spotted a fake: Everybody can vote freely and is encouraged to vote, but there is only a party allowed to show... rule 3, you have found a dictatorship.

If there is a group of people legally allowed to vote, that put a valid vote, but their votes are then zeroed and removed in postproduction then is the rule 2.

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#84
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jordan Peterson... That got old last year. No, it did not. By some takes, society is in its most dire crisis ever and he's telling people they can do something other than panic. That's popular, get over it.

Out of all the crises society has ever faced, you're talking about one of the most peaceful times in mankind. This is why people are getting annoyed at youtube's recommendations and part of the problem. People like you and Peterson trying to fight over people's minds and telling them you need to be offended by this or you need to do that. No, I just want to watch my nature docs, I don't need people trying to recruit…

> Out of all the crises society has ever faced, you're talking about one of the most peaceful times in mankind.

The crisis is beneath your nose.

> No, I just want to watch my nature docs, I don't need people trying to recruit me to fight in their own personal culture wars.

That is a healthy attitude, good for you! Jordan Peterson's not reaching out to people who are well adjusted and who have something going on in their lives. He's presenting an alternative to resentment, the particular kind of resentment that lends all too well to scapegoating.

If you are not put upon by his ideological opponents, that's great; but many people are, and I like personal responsibility as a message a heck of a lot better than blaming a merchant class, a race, or an unfalsifiable conspiracy: the latter of which seems to be the popular alternative to a narrative of self-ownership.

The fact that you, a particularly unusual person, are not interested in his work is no indication of whether or not it is popular enough to warrant promotion by YouTube's algorithm. Because people YouTube considers similar to the natural audience of that work, will tend to watch it at length when given the choice, YouTube figures it ought to promote it. That seems like the way a recommendation engine ought to work. If not that way, then how?

Added: to sum; I think it is at least morally acceptable that YouTube has a recommendation system based largely on how much time you are likely to spend watching the content. If that content is monetized, it is not pleasant that they would prefer monetized content, but it is at least defensible. The fact that you do not like the particular content mentioned by the parent comment is neither here, nor there.

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to illustrate our attenuation to story and the effect of dominant stories on our worldviews. I'd suggest it's less a challenge to democracy and more an affirmation of the criticality of a fact-based, unbiased 4th estate, and the scary effects of anyone with a comb-over and green screen being able to make their own "news" show.

So do the politicians in power only give out media licenses to news sources that feed from those "Anonymous Sources" that support their agenda? The problem is not who is allowed to report, it's that the mainstream news has started citing anonymous sources with ridiculous frequency and the credibility of those sources is never called into question because nobody knows who they are. When those anonymous sources turn ou…

10,000 Alex Jones, Ben Shapiro, Andy Ngo peddling conspiracy or ideology under the guise of journalism is not better.

You’re right as well of course about anonymous sources being an issue, but your “politicians in power” comment is an unnecessary straw man to the conversation.

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do the politicians in power only give out media licenses to news sources that feed from those "Anonymous Sources" that support their agenda? The problem is not who is allowed to report, it's that the mainstream news has started citing anonymous sources with ridiculous frequency and the credibility of those sources is never called into question because nobody knows who they are. When those anonymous sources turn ou…

This is the actual problem. The news has no consequences for being wrong, no matter how outrageously or often.

The actual problem is people with no intention of journalistic integrity being given the same access and platform as people with that intention.

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#87
post #80
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Your failure”? Do you believe you can spot disinformation with any reliability? When that misinformation constitutes the majority of all that you think you know about the issues you base your votes on?

Yes, it maybe be very very hard to sport disinformation but that's still my failure and the failure of other politician that fail to convince me. Not the failure of democracy.

It is a limitation of democracy. It is a limitation of every possible system of decision making. That, by definition, is it not working fine.

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#88
post #83
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How to you tell one from the other, especially when you’re inside one?

Lets see some examples Everybody is allowed to vote, as long as they are white: Felt like a real democracy but is a fake Everybody is allowed to vote, except women. Felt like "the best democracy" once upon a time, but is also fake. Not even a half democracy. Many of the things that today are normal could (and will) be deeply embarrasing in the future and so similar to a real democracy as a plastic imitation of a turd…

It should be understood that rule 2) means neither the US nor the EU are a "real democracy".

US fails due to the electoral vote issue. And the EU on the fact that smaller countries have a more representatives/citizen in the EU parliament than larger countries.

It would be interesting to know if there actually is a democracy that fulfills those rules...

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#89
post #87
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it maybe be very very hard to sport disinformation but that's still my failure and the failure of other politician that fail to convince me. Not the failure of democracy.

It is a limitation of democracy. It is a limitation of every possible system of decision making. That, by definition, is it not working fine.

But it is not the limitation of democracy. Whatever people end up vote for is not the concern of democracy. By definition democracy is merely a system where people exercise power by voting, it doesn't concern about the outcome.

As long as people have the right to vote, it is a democracy.

Its not the concern of democracy if the people vote for the "wrong" politician.

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#90
post #89
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a limitation of democracy. It is a limitation of every possible system of decision making. That, by definition, is it not working fine.

But it is not the limitation of democracy. Whatever people end up vote for is not the concern of democracy. By definition democracy is merely a system where people exercise power by voting, it doesn't concern about the outcome. As long as people have the right to vote, it is a democracy. Its not the concern of democracy if the people vote for the "wrong" politician.

People don’t exercise power in this scenario.
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