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Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

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Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#91
post #72

Fundamentally I think the problem is that these platforms are not neutral, when YouTube's algorithm hoists your video to the front page they are "manipulating" the system. Personally, I would not be surprised to see Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act challenged on this notion and it as the basis for other challenges. Internet providers just serve bits, any effort to "manipulate" those bits based on who is…

Fundamentally I think the problem is that these platforms are not neutral, when YouTube's algorithm hoists your video to the front page they are "manipulating" the system.

Sure, and when someone puts weights on both sides of a scale, operating it correctly, they are still "manipulating" the scale. That's not what people get mad about. It's when someone puts their thumb on the scale, because they want it to read a certain way, that people get mad.

It should be fine if the YouTube algorithm finds things which go viral, then promotes them, so long as that's neutral. It's even fine when things which are clearly abuses of the system or people are squashed, so long as that's neutral. It's not fine when it gets to the level of pushing or squashing a political agenda, however. It's not going to be easy to draw the line, but in the case of pushing politics, it has clearly gone too far.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#92
This is mostly just people like Jörg Sprave and Taofledermaus types, that are angry their videos of making improvised weapons and improvised ammunition, getting demonetized or removed. This started early last year when Jörg got fed up with losing money and getting strikes against videos on his channel.

For context he was most famous for his fantastically powerful homemade slingshots, he then started doing stuff like trying to defeat riot shields, stab resistant armor, etc by launching spears/metal rods/knives/swords/metal 'missile' projectiles etc out of homemade weapons that look like something Leonardo would have made if he went on a psychotic break after everyone he loved was killed in an alley to become Renaissance-Vigilanteman. He started posting rant after rant to his channel and ultimately started a union.

He, and channels like Taofledermaus started claiming they were being censored, their videos were unjustly being demonetized, yadda yadda and outright ignoring the fact that YouTube is a FREE platform and that YouTube primarily exists as an advertising company, not as a video hosting company. If you pointed this out in their video comment sections you would have rabid fans telling you "freedom of speech is a right!" "this is censorship!" "this is unconstitutional!" and ignoring the fact that serving tens of millions of video views costs money and that the content creators never paid a single cent in hosting fees to Google.

Most advertisers don't want to touch a guy showing how to defeat riot shields with homemade crossbows or a channel that packs shotgun shells with random crap from their junk drawer and shoots it at barbie dolls claiming they're shooting at Taylor Swift (seriously, Taylor Swift is mentioned in a TON of Taofledermaus videos while they shoot nails, ball bearings, legos, marbles, exotic commercial ammunition etc at dolls and other random Goodwill finds).

YouTube has nothing to fear and Content Creators need to wake up. If a content creator that gets 100,000 views per video on average in the first month had to pay for hosting on one 10 minute video they are looking at something like 25 gigabytes of data transfer at 1080p or something like 130 gigabytes of data at 4k, at a video a week you're looking at the better part of 7 terabytes of data transfer and assuming 10 minute videos with 4k upload quality and at least 800 gigabytes of storage.

Now consider some of those videos easily hit millions of views, especially if they go viral, and that many YouTubers that are actually doing this for a significant portion of their income have hundreds of videos, benefit wildly from the recommendation algorithms and trending feature of YouTube and what that sort of exposure would cost them to achieve on their own domain and...

I mean, imagine if PSY had to host Gangnam Style, it currently has 3.4 billion views... at YouTube HD (1080p) toolstud.io' video file size calculator puts it at 219 MB... that's 744,600 petabytes of data transfer... I can't imagine PSY could afford that bill.

They're making out like bandits and whining that YouTube isn't giving them enough of the ad revenue. Yet there are tons of creators on YouTube making a living purely off of Patreon subscriptions, YouTube has a competing supporting method and you can always sell merch and/or do sponsored videos occasionally.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#93

Did anyone ever thought of creating an external index of youtube videos so the recommendations are open source and aren't controlled by Youtube? Basically a table with links and other metadata

With the amount of raw footage coming from YouTube any given minute, I'm not sure there are many companies beyond Google that could do it.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#94
post #2

If that's the case, 99% will be booted off the platform and they will have to meet certain numbers of visitors and engagement every month, or lose their job..which is what unionizing means. If I were google, I would also get control of their users (they would now be the companys) and youtubers will no longer be able move to any other platform while working for Google. You can't expect the freedom of running your own…

Google always already had the users. They're on Google's platform and won't move. That's why the YouTubers have to fight Google rather than just move.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#95
post #72

Fundamentally I think the problem is that these platforms are not neutral, when YouTube's algorithm hoists your video to the front page they are "manipulating" the system. Personally, I would not be surprised to see Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act challenged on this notion and it as the basis for other challenges. Internet providers just serve bits, any effort to "manipulate" those bits based on who is…

Here's an excellent video breaking down with extremely compelling data how the "trending" tab is very heavily manipulated in favor of mainstream media sources: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDqBeXJ8Zx8

What's interesting is that extreme bias in the US is not seen in Canada. Though I'm not sure it's stated in the video, I think that Youtube has been propping up MSM sources so that they can make themselves seem more relevant in the eyes of the MSM. They're doing this so that they can partner with the MSM and expand their YoutubeTV service.

They desperately want some sort of service model to make money, and they're willing to destroy the goodwill of the community to achieve it.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#96
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a government website the other day. 5 pages of forms I filled out several times. Each time on the final page, "system error, cannot proceed." I called the agency, they said, "You should print out the PDF, fill that out and bring it to our office." Can you believe that?? There aren't enough programmers to make the .gov stuff work right because FAANG is buying them all. So, I'm not sure you are right on that.

> Can you believe that?? There aren't enough programmers to make the .gov stuff work right because FAANG is buying them all. So, I'm not sure you are right on that. There are enough. There certainly are in the US and likely so other places. It's that government often pays peanuts compared to private sector and adds poor management and poor advancement prospects on top. If people aren't willing to work for you because…

Being a contractor is where it's at, it's just hard to win the contracts sometimes because you gotta know people. Once you do, it's not unusual to see a $3 million budget to build a basic website.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#97

What they should do is collectively take their content somewhere else. As an aside, I'm seeing the same pattern at Amazon. People thought they were opening a business on amazon selling retail. Then amazon started selling the profitable products themselves, storing the products themselves, ... basically doing more and more of the work and taking more control and taking money from the people who helped them become powe…

>The internet has been ruined by the mainstream and the money grubbers.

Predatory practical monopolies and outdated labor laws functioning as intended.

This is one of the under-appreciated aspects of capitalism: the profit motive encourages the unscrupulous to surface ethical holes in the market. If only we were principled enough to do something with this information.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#98
post #55

I wonder how this plays out. Youtubers are very competitive, and the high profile YouTuber crowd very much asks for special benefits for themselves ... not for the collective.

We can take a look at SAG-AFTRA, the Screen Actors Guild, to see how it will play out.

Turns out that every movie star alive today is a union member, and they have no problem asking for special benefits and receiving them.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#99

Check out Joerg Sprave’s video [1] on this with him and the IG Metall lawyers. Joerg is the slingshot channel YouTuber who is helping lead the charge on this. In the video, they give a good breakdown on their demands and their strategy. [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oZZ5Kouj_hQ

Definitely. I also came across that video via a shout-out from Forgotten Weapons:

https://youtu.be/EUxxLZz_2NU

I hope Dr. Richard Wolff interviews Youtube Union and IG Metall, because it's in his wheelhouse of workers organizing, co-ops and economics.

https://youtube.com/democracyatwrk

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#100

This is mostly just people like Jörg Sprave and Taofledermaus types, that are angry their videos of making improvised weapons and improvised ammunition, getting demonetized or removed. This started early last year when Jörg got fed up with losing money and getting strikes against videos on his channel. For context he was most famous for his fantastically powerful homemade slingshots, he then started doing stuff like…

... no actually, not just people making weapons are getting demonetized. Everyone, across the board, is getting demonetized seemingly at random and with no explanation. A video can be demonetized if the cellphone of someone in that video's ringtone is a popular song. Even worse, they don't get demonetized and become the property of the person who wrote the song...
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